I am a Christian Universalist and I challenge any and all of you to give me a verse from scripture that supports the doctrines of damnations and I will prove it wrong either by using the Greek or Hebrew or scripture.
I believe God’s Word has been altered by bias religious men to promote eternal hell and all the doom and gloom of two thousand years of mans dark age of religious heresy.
By the way I would love to be able to have the word "Christian Universalist added to the side of my post would appreciate any help.
Challenge to all eternalhellist believer.
Moderator: Moderators
Post #3
Ultimately all will be saved, delivered, set free.Misty wrote:Could you explain what exactly a Chrisitan Universalist believes please, it is not a term with which I am familiar.
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1 Cor 15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
(KJV)
I like the Amplified which declares. “Everything to everyone�
28However, when everything is subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also subject Himself to [the Father] Who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all [be everything to everyone, supreme, the indwelling and controlling factor of life].
Post #5
That is why Jesus died. To reverse the curse.Misty wrote:Thanks.
I believe that if there is an afterlife all will be able to access it, even if you have to spend some time cleaning out the sewers in order to atone for badness down here!
1 Corinthians 15:22-24
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:
If God does not call you, you cannot come.
Post #6
Here is a starter. There is no "Good News" when billions will be tortured for ever and ever and ever and ever.
According to eternal hellist the following verse is an out right lie?
Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
According to eternal hellist the following verse is an out right lie?
Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Post #7
The wide way of Destruction is not Universalism but orthodoxy. Narrow is the gate that leads to life; and I am sure even you will agree with me that Christ is that narrow way. But no religious men are not seeking Christ; they are seeking only what there religion is telling them; now that is the broad way.
If Jesus Christ revealed a truth today; and He does; the orthodoxy Christians would deny Him just like the Jews of 2000 years ago unless it fit their religion. No orthodox religious man follows their religions; their creeds, dogma or denomination; that is the broad way; they know nothing of Christ and even reject Christ (anointing).
The Bible is not speaking to non Christians; but to believers in Matt 7:13; or His Church be it Baby lon or His firstfruits. The Broad way is a way that declares that God cannot save all mankind (more then 22,000 systems of religion believe that old warn out wineskin). There is no good news; and I mean absolutely no good news in eternal hell and torment; of a God’s people He has not called; Christian Universalism is God’s little flock; there are very few of us.
Now talk about false prophets: When men of God cannot reach out beyond where they are to God and must control others men with their limited understanding; that is religion and that is a false prophet.
Matthew 7:13
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 "For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it. 15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
If Jesus Christ revealed a truth today; and He does; the orthodoxy Christians would deny Him just like the Jews of 2000 years ago unless it fit their religion. No orthodox religious man follows their religions; their creeds, dogma or denomination; that is the broad way; they know nothing of Christ and even reject Christ (anointing).
The Bible is not speaking to non Christians; but to believers in Matt 7:13; or His Church be it Baby lon or His firstfruits. The Broad way is a way that declares that God cannot save all mankind (more then 22,000 systems of religion believe that old warn out wineskin). There is no good news; and I mean absolutely no good news in eternal hell and torment; of a God’s people He has not called; Christian Universalism is God’s little flock; there are very few of us.
Now talk about false prophets: When men of God cannot reach out beyond where they are to God and must control others men with their limited understanding; that is religion and that is a false prophet.
Matthew 7:13
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 "For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it. 15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Why Would God torture a baby goat?
Post #8Seeing no one has take up my challenge let me start.
Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:
A sheep is a mature believe, a sheep is a very loyal to His master and eats only the best of the spiritual grasses. As a boy I notice the farmer would give the sheep the second and third cuttings of grass; full of leaves and substance. Now a cow would eat the first cutting the lesser of the hay crop, made up of stems and little leaf compared to the earlier cuttings.
Of course a goat will eat any carnal garbage as long as it is in front of his nose.
Now I want to go to Matt 25:32 and I note; many are assuming a goat is a non believer, all it is your assumption, look at the Greek; I see a goat as an immature believer (baby goat); who are separated because of their spiritual immaturity.
Many are mature in their little religious box; but are immature spiritually; they have that immature goat nature. What garbage have you been eating to believe that Jesus is a terriorist.
Sheep Separated from Goats
Where on the other hand a goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)
NT:2056
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
If you were a Jew in Jesus day there would be no problem with this parable, you see a Jew knows a goat and a sheep are clean animals.
PIG
Now if you the verses were referred to a pig or unclean animal I would agree with the traditional teaching. A pig would be a great example of the unjust/heathen; but a goat was used all though out the OT as a sacrificial animal’ so how can it be the unjust? (scrape goat); and why would God burn up a baby goat in everlasting fire; what did the baby goat do?
Actually nothing; the unqualified and unjust and bias translators obvious made a grave error in the word everlasting and should of translated it ages (NT:166 Aionios). The word means ages; limit duration. The has happen a number of times in scripture and can be easily proven by the context of the verse.
Unless of cource you baby goats want to burn forever and ever.
But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angel (messengers)
So many of God’s people are baby goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture
Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:
A sheep is a mature believe, a sheep is a very loyal to His master and eats only the best of the spiritual grasses. As a boy I notice the farmer would give the sheep the second and third cuttings of grass; full of leaves and substance. Now a cow would eat the first cutting the lesser of the hay crop, made up of stems and little leaf compared to the earlier cuttings.
Of course a goat will eat any carnal garbage as long as it is in front of his nose.
Now I want to go to Matt 25:32 and I note; many are assuming a goat is a non believer, all it is your assumption, look at the Greek; I see a goat as an immature believer (baby goat); who are separated because of their spiritual immaturity.
Many are mature in their little religious box; but are immature spiritually; they have that immature goat nature. What garbage have you been eating to believe that Jesus is a terriorist.
Sheep Separated from Goats
Where on the other hand a goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)
NT:2056
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
If you were a Jew in Jesus day there would be no problem with this parable, you see a Jew knows a goat and a sheep are clean animals.
PIG
Now if you the verses were referred to a pig or unclean animal I would agree with the traditional teaching. A pig would be a great example of the unjust/heathen; but a goat was used all though out the OT as a sacrificial animal’ so how can it be the unjust? (scrape goat); and why would God burn up a baby goat in everlasting fire; what did the baby goat do?
Actually nothing; the unqualified and unjust and bias translators obvious made a grave error in the word everlasting and should of translated it ages (NT:166 Aionios). The word means ages; limit duration. The has happen a number of times in scripture and can be easily proven by the context of the verse.
Unless of cource you baby goats want to burn forever and ever.
But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angel (messengers)
So many of God’s people are baby goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture
Agely
Post #9A careful study of the Greek word “aionios� (translated as “eternal,� “everlasting,� and “forever and ever� in our English translations) shows that it comes from the Greek noun “aion� which always means “an indeterminate period of time.�
It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios� from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived. God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete.
It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios� from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived. God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete.
Post #10
aion or aionios
These two words are translated as well as mis-translated thirteen ways: eternal age, ages of ages, course, world, , since the world began, from the beginning of the world, ever, forever, forever and ever, for evermore, while the world standeth, world without end, and, never.
Now I understand what the bias translators have interpreted the Bible using these two words as mentioned above but it just does not add up in the Bible. God’s Word is perfect; with out error; but it is full of errors if we believe these translator and or translations
The term forever (and its equivalents, eternal and everlasting) often occurs when it cannot possibly mean unending. In the story of Jonah one is surprised to hear him say while in the belly of the fish, "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever" (Jon. 2:6). But he was in the fish only three days and three nights!
When a Hebrew slave loved his master and did not wish to go free at the end of the seventh year, we read, "... His master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever" (Ex. 21:6). Of course, that couldn't be longer than his life span.
Again, when Solomon built the temple unto the Lord, he began his prayer of dedication with the statement, "I have surely built You a house to dwell in, a settled place for You to abide in for ever" (I Kgs. 8:13). And the Lord answered Solomon, "I have heard your prayer and supplication that you have made before Me: I have hallowed this house, which you have built, to put My name there for ever" (I Kgs. 9:3). But Solomon's temple lasted for only about 400 years! And it was never in God's mind to dwell there for ever!
Here is something that ought to be clear to any intelligent, honest man. A word that is used to mean in one case three days and nights, in another case to mean a man's lifetime, and in still another case to mean a period of about four centuries, surely does not mean unending or eternal, no matter what English word is used to translate it. USAGE DETERMINES MEANING.
Another illustration is the Aaronic priesthood. According to the King James version, Aaron and his sons were anointed as priests for ever. It says, "Their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations" (Ex. 40:15). Yet we read in Heb. 7:11-18 that the Aaronic priesthood is CHANGED to that of Melchizedek. "Now if perfection had been attainable by the Levitical priesthood, for under it the people were given the Law, why was it further necessary that there should arise another and different kind of Priest, one after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed after the order of Aaron? For when there is a CHANGE IN THE PRIESTHOOD, there is of necessity an alteration of the law concerning the priesthood as well. For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah, and Moses mentioned nothing about priests in connection with that tribe. So, a previous physical regulation and command is CANCELLED because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness" (Amplified Bible).
Amazing, isn't it, that the priesthood which was ordained for ever has been CANCELLED! There would be no contradiction if the statement in Exodus were translated as it should be, "to the age throughout their generations." That is, throughout their generations AS LONG AS THAT AGE LASTED. In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures which Jesus and His disciples used, the Greek word AION was the word used for the Hebrew OLAM. According to Hebrew and Greek usage, therefore, these words mean a period of time, a period of unknown length, the duration of which is determined by the fact or condition or person to which the term is applied.
These two words are translated as well as mis-translated thirteen ways: eternal age, ages of ages, course, world, , since the world began, from the beginning of the world, ever, forever, forever and ever, for evermore, while the world standeth, world without end, and, never.
Now I understand what the bias translators have interpreted the Bible using these two words as mentioned above but it just does not add up in the Bible. God’s Word is perfect; with out error; but it is full of errors if we believe these translator and or translations
The term forever (and its equivalents, eternal and everlasting) often occurs when it cannot possibly mean unending. In the story of Jonah one is surprised to hear him say while in the belly of the fish, "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever" (Jon. 2:6). But he was in the fish only three days and three nights!
When a Hebrew slave loved his master and did not wish to go free at the end of the seventh year, we read, "... His master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever" (Ex. 21:6). Of course, that couldn't be longer than his life span.
Again, when Solomon built the temple unto the Lord, he began his prayer of dedication with the statement, "I have surely built You a house to dwell in, a settled place for You to abide in for ever" (I Kgs. 8:13). And the Lord answered Solomon, "I have heard your prayer and supplication that you have made before Me: I have hallowed this house, which you have built, to put My name there for ever" (I Kgs. 9:3). But Solomon's temple lasted for only about 400 years! And it was never in God's mind to dwell there for ever!
Here is something that ought to be clear to any intelligent, honest man. A word that is used to mean in one case three days and nights, in another case to mean a man's lifetime, and in still another case to mean a period of about four centuries, surely does not mean unending or eternal, no matter what English word is used to translate it. USAGE DETERMINES MEANING.
Another illustration is the Aaronic priesthood. According to the King James version, Aaron and his sons were anointed as priests for ever. It says, "Their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations" (Ex. 40:15). Yet we read in Heb. 7:11-18 that the Aaronic priesthood is CHANGED to that of Melchizedek. "Now if perfection had been attainable by the Levitical priesthood, for under it the people were given the Law, why was it further necessary that there should arise another and different kind of Priest, one after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed after the order of Aaron? For when there is a CHANGE IN THE PRIESTHOOD, there is of necessity an alteration of the law concerning the priesthood as well. For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah, and Moses mentioned nothing about priests in connection with that tribe. So, a previous physical regulation and command is CANCELLED because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness" (Amplified Bible).
Amazing, isn't it, that the priesthood which was ordained for ever has been CANCELLED! There would be no contradiction if the statement in Exodus were translated as it should be, "to the age throughout their generations." That is, throughout their generations AS LONG AS THAT AGE LASTED. In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures which Jesus and His disciples used, the Greek word AION was the word used for the Hebrew OLAM. According to Hebrew and Greek usage, therefore, these words mean a period of time, a period of unknown length, the duration of which is determined by the fact or condition or person to which the term is applied.
