Who is a Christian?? !!

[oldbadger]

Before Covid I used to cycle around my local area and would visit chapels and churches which held tea'n'chat meetings. On one occasion I passed a Christian hall and saw a poster which read something like 'soup and chat', and I walked inside just as the event was commencing. A long table was set and many mid-aged and elderly folks sat around; I was guided to a place.

A very stern lady across the table fixed me in her gaze and an interrogation began:-
Who are you?
Hello I'm oldbadger.
Why have you come here?
I wanted to meet you, and the soup is interesting.
How did you know about this meeting?
I saw a big poster outside.
Do you walk in to any place because of posters?
Yes..... I often do.
Where else have you just walked in to?
Oh, lots of places. The Methodist church holds tea/biscuit meets on Saturday mornings.
She grunted what sounded like disapproval. I mentioned a few other meetings and then the room erupted.
I said....
Oh, and the Christian Spiritualists in T--------- offering healing and tea on Mondays at 1.30pm.

This stern lady exploded.
They are not Christians! They worship the Devil! All these evil people who pretend to be Christians...... Jesus warned us about you all! And that disgusting Halloween...... ............ well this carried on for minutes until she could be calmed down.

This has happened many times....... I once mentioned that we have JW Christian friends and we are pleased to let them park on our driveway when visiting homes in the area, and several Christians immediately pointed out that JWs are different, or not proper Christians......

There are many many differing churches and creeds, and so I wonder....... who is a proper Christian?

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

So as far as I know everything that has ever been said to mankind is contained in the Bible.

Scripture alone would refute that, would it not? Just in the book of Revelation, wasn't John told some things that he was not permitted to write down?



Peace again.

Are you asking me? Why don't you tell the scripture you're referring to.

It was more rhetorical, sorry. I assume you know it. But here is the scripture:

And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.” Rev 10:4


Peace again.

[William]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #90]

Oldbager, I hope you are seeing what is happening here. Do you see the push back when a person uses the Bible? Do you see how they are trying to justify not following it?

Well now, this is interesting.
oldbadger - it is never my intention to try and discourage anyone from converting to any religion, not even the Jehovah's Witness religion.

However, I feel it pertinent to say that I am not trying to encourage anyone from 'not following the bible' but to question what that actually means and whether claims about the bible are actually truthful.

Do you see how things start so that a person can push their own agenda their own lists as to what a Christian is?

I have not given any opinion on 'what a Christian is' and hope that you can appreciate that this is an unfounded accusation.
I am pushing no agenda. I am questioning the validity of a statement made by [in this case] members of the Jehovah's Witnesses, which implied that every word YHWH ever spoke, is contained in the Christian Bible.

While I try to stick to the Bible, they go beyond what is in the Bible.

It is fine to go beyond what is in the bible, if the bible has no information on things which are not in the bible. That was a main thrust of my observations in my post.
What appears to be happening here is evidence that Timothy [a Jehovah's Witness] may be seeing you as a possible convert to the JW take on things biblical, and for that reason interpreting what I am posting as some threat to that agenda, and attempting to demonize my actions in relation to that.

Many people thrive on speculation, mistrust and imagination.

This is a common enough activity among the religious. I myself am not religious.

I hope I have shown that I do none of that.

I hope my reply here clearly demonstrates that in trying to cast shadows upon my supposed agenda, Timothy is indeed exhibiting the very thing Timothy is attempting to project upon my person.

What has been called God's word is the world's problem. They can't attack it so they try to undermine it. Classic debate tactic and maybe the oldest. "Did God really say...?" Genesis 3:1

Personally speaking, I have no particular horse in that race. I just think that if there is a God-Creator of this universe, there is no religion which exists or could ever exist, which can box that God up into a collection of many-authored writings and legitimately claim such as the literal "Word of God" while at the same time attempt to discredit/demonize anything others might message which are not contained within said religious holy books/writings.

Just as Jesus is never recorded as calling his followers "Christians", the bible is never recorded as calling itself "The Word of God" and when it does mention "The Word of God", it clearly is referring to something other than itself.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #90]

Oldbager, I hope you are seeing what is happening here. Do you see the push back when a person uses the Bible? Do you see how they are trying to justify not following it?

Well now, this is interesting.
oldbadger - it is never my intention to try and discourage anyone from converting to any religion, not even the Jehovah's Witness religion.

However, I feel it pertinent to say that I am not trying to encourage anyone from 'not following the bible' but to question what that actually means and whether claims about the bible are actually truthful.

Do you see how things start so that a person can push their own agenda their own lists as to what a Christian is?

I have not given any opinion on 'what a Christian is' and hope that you can appreciate that this is an unfounded accusation.
I am pushing no agenda. I am questioning the validity of a statement made by [in this case] members of the Jehovah's Witnesses, which implied that every word YHWH ever spoke, is contained in the Christian Bible.

While I try to stick to the Bible, they go beyond what is in the Bible.

It is fine to go beyond what is in the bible, if the bible has no information on things which are not in the bible. That was a main thrust of my observations in my post.
What appears to be happening here is evidence that Timothy [a Jehovah's Witness] may be seeing you as a possible convert to the JW take on things biblical, and for that reason interpreting what I am posting as some threat to that agenda, and attempting to demonize my actions in relation to that.

Many people thrive on speculation, mistrust and imagination.

This is a common enough activity among the religious. I myself am not religious.

I hope I have shown that I do none of that.

I hope my reply here clearly demonstrates that in trying to cast shadows upon my supposed agenda, Timothy is indeed exhibiting the very thing Timothy is attempting to project upon my person.

What has been called God's word is the world's problem. They can't attack it so they try to undermine it. Classic debate tactic and maybe the oldest. "Did God really say...?" Genesis 3:1

Personally speaking, I have no particular horse in that race. I just think that if there is a God-Creator of this universe, there is no religion which exists or could ever exist, which can box that God up into a collection of many-authored writings and legitimately claim such as the literal "Word of God" while at the same time attempt to discredit/demonize anything others might message which are not contained within said religious holy books/writings.

Just as Jesus is never recorded as calling his followers "Christians", the bible is never recorded as calling itself "The Word of God" and when it does mention "The Word of God", it clearly is referring to something other than itself.

Thank you for proving my point!

[2timothy316]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

So as far as I know everything that has ever been said to mankind is contained in the Bible.

Scripture alone would refute that, would it not? Just in the book of Revelation, wasn't John told some things that he was not permitted to write down?



Peace again.

Are you asking me? Why don't you tell the scripture you're referring to.

It was more rhetorical, sorry. I assume you know it. But here is the scripture:

And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.” v


Peace again.

This doesn't mean that what was said wasn't written in past scripture. Most likely what was said was an explanation of scripture and means that it's something we already can read. That only at the proper time would followers of Christ understand what was already written. So there is no addition outside of scripture, which is what you want, and can't prove you have. And those that say they do are not unified, like Christ said his followers would be. You and William are unified versus the Bible but that is all.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

So as far as I know everything that has ever been said to mankind is contained in the Bible.

Scripture alone would refute that, would it not? Just in the book of Revelation, wasn't John told some things that he was not permitted to write down?



Peace again.

Are you asking me? Why don't you tell the scripture you're referring to.

It was more rhetorical, sorry. I assume you know it. But here is the scripture:

And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.” v


Peace again.

This doesn't mean that what was said wasn't written in past scripture. Most likely what was said was an explanation of scripture and means that it's something we already can read.

That is pure speculation on your behalf, timothy.

Even Christ said (as is written) that He had more to teach, more than the apostles could yet bear. It even provides examples of Him continuing to teach them after His death, resurrection and ascension. That is the example given in what is written. Even if you do not accept it.

That only at the proper time would followers of Christ understand what was already written.

See above.

So there is no addition outside of scripture, which is what you want, and can't prove you have.

Has nothing to do with what I want, and everything to do with what Christ said, including the example that we have been given, even in what is written. The bible that you claim to believe shows that Christ is certainly capable of speaking (after His death and resurrection and ascension), and that He did in fact continue to speak to His sheep, teaching them and guiding them, and that they listened to His voice. It is right there in front of your eyes, yet you do not accept it.

And those that say they do are not unified, like Christ said his followers would be.

And those who say they follow only the bible are not unified. So what is your point?

You and William are unified versus the Bible but that is all.

I don't speak for William, but I am not "versus" the bible. I am simply FOR Christ. I have not even shared anything that contradicts Christ. Teaching people that most are not permitted to eat or drink the bread and wine that mean the body and blood of Christ - as your religion teaches her followers and recruits - when Christ said that anyone may eat and drink... well, that is contradicting Christ. Christ gave a clear invitation and command. No man or religion had the right to step in front of Christ and tell people seeking Him that He wasn't speaking to them. Men who, by their own admission, do not hear His voice and so cannot be receiving new information from Him.

Regardless...

Christ should come first, always. His words, His commands, His example, He Himself. We should be holding all things up against the Light <- Christ is that Light. We should test things against the Truth <- Christ is that Truth. We can/should test also against love, because God is love, and the law that comes from Him is also love (and love covers over a multitude of sins).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[oldbadger]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #80]

William wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:52 pm
'Do you think anything got left out....if so, what?'

William didn't write that. Oldbadger wrote that.

Indeed...that was my question.
And you told me that you would answer, yes?

But I don't think that you know....... that's just my guess.

[William]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #80]

William wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:52 pm
'Do you think anything got left out....if so, what?'

William didn't write that. Oldbadger wrote that.

Indeed...that was my question.
And you told me that you would answer, yes?

But I don't think that you know....... that's just my guess.

My answer is nestled in post #86.

[William]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #80]

William wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:52 pm
'Do you think anything got left out....if so, what?'

William didn't write that. Oldbadger wrote that.

Indeed...that was my question.
And you told me that you would answer, yes?

But I don't think that you know....... that's just my guess.

My answer is nestled in post #86.

[2timothy316]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

So as far as I know everything that has ever been said to mankind is contained in the Bible.

Scripture alone would refute that, would it not? Just in the book of Revelation, wasn't John told some things that he was not permitted to write down?



Peace again.

Are you asking me? Why don't you tell the scripture you're referring to.

It was more rhetorical, sorry. I assume you know it. But here is the scripture:

And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.” v


Peace again.

This doesn't mean that what was said wasn't written in past scripture. Most likely what was said was an explanation of scripture and means that it's something we already can read.

That is pure speculation on your behalf, timothy.

The kettle said to the pot.
You're speculating that something was said that wasn't in the Bible.

[Difflugia]

The kettle said to the pot.
You're speculating that something was said that wasn't in the Bible.

It sounds like tam is "speculating" that the Bible means what it says.