If the Trinity is an eternal truth, and God was always Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (even well before the incarnation), why isn't that doctrine found in the "Old" Testament, the Hebrew Bible?
Instead we have "Hear O Israel, YHVH our God, YHVH is One". (Deuteronomy 6.4) And that proclamation was to be recited by YHVH's people every day in prayer, multiple times.
If the Trinity is an eternal truth..
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Elijah John
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If the Trinity is an eternal truth..
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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PinSeeker
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Post #91
LOL!!!! No. No, I'm not...Yahwehismywitness wrote: Are you now trying to make Isaiah a God?
Well, I have a spirit, for sure; we all do. But I also, as a heart-regenerate Christian, have the Holy Spirit, Who Himself is my anointing (given by God the Father).Yahwehismywitness wrote: Let me ask you a question is your spirit separate from your body or is it in you?
Right. I'm not doing any of that. Far be it from me to do so. My goodness.Yahwehismywitness wrote: Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Matthew 23:9 This means do not call spirit or Isaiah same name.
Grace and peace to you.
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Yahwehismywitness
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Post #92
So you are not saying 3 separate Gods?God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all seen here)
The Son is King and Holy Spirit within Yahweh is spirit of truth. Jesus said me and my Father are one Matthew 3:16, John 17:3, John 10:30, Mathew 23:9
My concern: For they went and served other Gods, and worshiped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them. Deuteronomy 29:26
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PinSeeker
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Post #93
No, that's not what I'm saying. The One True God exists in three distinct Persons. One in three, and three in one -- triune.Yahwehismywitness wrote:So you are not saying 3 separate Gods?God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all seen here)
Yes, the Son is surely King, and the Holy Spirit is indeed in Yahweh -- as the Son is -- but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Persons, together making up the one true -- triune -- God.Yahwehismywitness wrote: The Son is King and Holy Spirit within Yahweh is spirit of truth. Jesus said me and my Father are one Matthew 3:16, John 17:3, John 10:30, Mathew 23:9
Sure. But you're conflating some things in order to have this concern.Yahwehismywitness wrote: My concern: For they went and served other Gods, and worshiped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them. Deuteronomy 29:26
Grace and peace to you.
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Overcomer
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Post #94
My apologies as I can only cut and paste this evening as I have to leave the site for today. Hopefully it provides food for thought:
A hint of the doctrine of the Trinity can be found in the first verse of the Bible.
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1).
The Hebrew word for God is Elohim. Elohim is a plural noun but it is used here with a singular verb bara. In the remainder of the Old Testament, when Elohim speaks of the true God, it is always used with a singular verb. The conclusion to be drawn is that in some sense God is both singular and plural. The doctrine of the Trinity states this - within the nature of the one God there are three eternal persons.
God Says "Let Us"
We find a further hint of the Trinity in Genesis 1.
Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth" (Genesis 1:26).
The phrase "let us" again gives the idea of plurality. The word "us" cannot refer to angels because angels do not create.
Therefore, in the first chapter of the Bible we have a hint of the Trinity with the plural title Elohim used with a singular verb and God speaking and saying, "Let us."
The words "let us" is used elsewhere of God speaking in Genesis. After Adam and Eve sinned the Bible records.
Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever (Genesis 3:22).
At the incident at the Tower of Babel we read God saying.
Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech (Genesis 11:7).
Isaiah the prophet recorded God saying.
Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me" (Isaiah 6:8).
There is another instance in the Isaiah where there is a second plural name for God -- Maker.
For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called (Isaiah 54:5).
The word translated, "Maker" is plural in Hebrew. Therefore we have a second Hebrew word that is plural that is used of God.
There is one statement in the Old Testament that gives a fairly clear indication of the Trinity.
Come near me and listen to this: "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there. "And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me, with his Spirit. This is what the LORD says - your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go (Isaiah 48:16,17).
In verse sixteen, God the Son is speaking. He identifies the Father [the Sovereign Lord] and His Spirit as having sent Him. In the next verse, the Son is clearly spoken of as the Lord. Consequently these verses identify three distinct Persons who are God without denying the fact there is only one God.
The Old Testament also makes a distinction between the Lord who is in heaven and the one on earth.
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah - from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus He overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities - and also the vegetation in the land (Genesis 19:24).
Each Member Is Specifically Mentioned In The Old Testament
There are Old Testament passages that refer to God the Father.
For you are our father, though Abraham does not know us and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O LORD, are our father; our Redeemer from of old is your name (Isaiah 63:16).
Malachi wrote.
Have we not all one father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our ancestors? (Malachi 2:10).
The Son Is Found In The Old Testament. The Psalmist wrote.
Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity; you love righteousness and hate wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions (Psalm 45:6,7).
In the Second Psalm we read.
I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill. I will tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have begotten you (Psalm 2:6,7)
Later, in that same Psalm, it says.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in him (Psalm 2:12)
In the Book of Proverbs it says.
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know! (Proverbs 30:4).
The Messiah Has Divine Titles
"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up to David Or up from David's line} a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land" (Jeremiah 23:5,6).
Isaiah wrote.
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6).
The Angel of the Lord has the power to forgive sins
"See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him (Exodus 23:20,21).
The Holy Spirit, or the "Spirit of the Lord," is also mentioned in the Old Testament. In the Book of Genesis we read.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters (Genesis 1:2).
Isaiah recorded the following.
The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him - the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD - and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears (Isaiah 11:2,3).
Isaiah also wrote.
The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners (Isaiah 61:1).
Later Isaiah wrote.
Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them (Isaiah 63:10).
The Spirit of God is distinguished from the Lord in the account leading up to the Flood.
Then the LORD said, "My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years" (Genesis 6:3)
The Trinity is also foreshadowed in the triple benediction of Numbers 6:24-27.
The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace. So they will put my name on the Israelites, and I will bless them.
When Jacob blessed his son Joseph, he used the name of God three times. Each time God's name was identified differently.
Then he blessed Joseph and said, "May the God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, the Angel who has delivered me from all harm may he bless these boys. May they be called by my name and the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac, and may they increase greatly upon the earth (Genesis 48:15,16).
While this is not conclusive, the triple benedictions are consistent with the doctrine of the Trinity.
Why Is There Not More Said?
If the doctrine of the Trinity is true, then why don't we find more explicit references in the Old Testament? Part of the answer may lie in the culture in which the Old Testament was written. Israel was surrounded by nations who were all polytheistic - they believed in many gods. It was important for Israel to realize that the God of the Bible is the only God who existed. Consequently the oneness of God was stressed. After this truth was firmly understood by Israel then the Lord revealed further truth about His basic nature - that He is a Trinity.
Summary
Although the Trinity is not explicitly taught in the Old Testament, the basis of this doctrine is certainly found there. First there is the use of the plural noun for God Elohim that is used with a singular verb. This gives a hint of the Trinity. The Hebrew word for Maker, which describes God, is also in the plural.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don ... rt_330.cfm
A hint of the doctrine of the Trinity can be found in the first verse of the Bible.
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1).
The Hebrew word for God is Elohim. Elohim is a plural noun but it is used here with a singular verb bara. In the remainder of the Old Testament, when Elohim speaks of the true God, it is always used with a singular verb. The conclusion to be drawn is that in some sense God is both singular and plural. The doctrine of the Trinity states this - within the nature of the one God there are three eternal persons.
God Says "Let Us"
We find a further hint of the Trinity in Genesis 1.
Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth" (Genesis 1:26).
The phrase "let us" again gives the idea of plurality. The word "us" cannot refer to angels because angels do not create.
Therefore, in the first chapter of the Bible we have a hint of the Trinity with the plural title Elohim used with a singular verb and God speaking and saying, "Let us."
The words "let us" is used elsewhere of God speaking in Genesis. After Adam and Eve sinned the Bible records.
Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever (Genesis 3:22).
At the incident at the Tower of Babel we read God saying.
Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech (Genesis 11:7).
Isaiah the prophet recorded God saying.
Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me" (Isaiah 6:8).
There is another instance in the Isaiah where there is a second plural name for God -- Maker.
For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called (Isaiah 54:5).
The word translated, "Maker" is plural in Hebrew. Therefore we have a second Hebrew word that is plural that is used of God.
There is one statement in the Old Testament that gives a fairly clear indication of the Trinity.
Come near me and listen to this: "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there. "And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me, with his Spirit. This is what the LORD says - your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go (Isaiah 48:16,17).
In verse sixteen, God the Son is speaking. He identifies the Father [the Sovereign Lord] and His Spirit as having sent Him. In the next verse, the Son is clearly spoken of as the Lord. Consequently these verses identify three distinct Persons who are God without denying the fact there is only one God.
The Old Testament also makes a distinction between the Lord who is in heaven and the one on earth.
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah - from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus He overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities - and also the vegetation in the land (Genesis 19:24).
Each Member Is Specifically Mentioned In The Old Testament
There are Old Testament passages that refer to God the Father.
For you are our father, though Abraham does not know us and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O LORD, are our father; our Redeemer from of old is your name (Isaiah 63:16).
Malachi wrote.
Have we not all one father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our ancestors? (Malachi 2:10).
The Son Is Found In The Old Testament. The Psalmist wrote.
Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity; you love righteousness and hate wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions (Psalm 45:6,7).
In the Second Psalm we read.
I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill. I will tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have begotten you (Psalm 2:6,7)
Later, in that same Psalm, it says.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in him (Psalm 2:12)
In the Book of Proverbs it says.
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know! (Proverbs 30:4).
The Messiah Has Divine Titles
"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up to David Or up from David's line} a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land" (Jeremiah 23:5,6).
Isaiah wrote.
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6).
The Angel of the Lord has the power to forgive sins
"See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him (Exodus 23:20,21).
The Holy Spirit, or the "Spirit of the Lord," is also mentioned in the Old Testament. In the Book of Genesis we read.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters (Genesis 1:2).
Isaiah recorded the following.
The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him - the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD - and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears (Isaiah 11:2,3).
Isaiah also wrote.
The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners (Isaiah 61:1).
Later Isaiah wrote.
Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them (Isaiah 63:10).
The Spirit of God is distinguished from the Lord in the account leading up to the Flood.
Then the LORD said, "My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years" (Genesis 6:3)
The Trinity is also foreshadowed in the triple benediction of Numbers 6:24-27.
The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace. So they will put my name on the Israelites, and I will bless them.
When Jacob blessed his son Joseph, he used the name of God three times. Each time God's name was identified differently.
Then he blessed Joseph and said, "May the God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, the Angel who has delivered me from all harm may he bless these boys. May they be called by my name and the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac, and may they increase greatly upon the earth (Genesis 48:15,16).
While this is not conclusive, the triple benedictions are consistent with the doctrine of the Trinity.
Why Is There Not More Said?
If the doctrine of the Trinity is true, then why don't we find more explicit references in the Old Testament? Part of the answer may lie in the culture in which the Old Testament was written. Israel was surrounded by nations who were all polytheistic - they believed in many gods. It was important for Israel to realize that the God of the Bible is the only God who existed. Consequently the oneness of God was stressed. After this truth was firmly understood by Israel then the Lord revealed further truth about His basic nature - that He is a Trinity.
Summary
Although the Trinity is not explicitly taught in the Old Testament, the basis of this doctrine is certainly found there. First there is the use of the plural noun for God Elohim that is used with a singular verb. This gives a hint of the Trinity. The Hebrew word for Maker, which describes God, is also in the plural.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don ... rt_330.cfm
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onewithhim
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Post #95
[Replying to post 93 by Overcomer]
There is NO basis for the Trinity in the Old Testament, nor the New Testament. None at all. The Catholic Church itself has stated that there is no real basis for it anywhere in the Bible, per their article in the New Catholic Encyclopedia.
It is contrived from pagan traditions, and GRADUALLY formed into a doctrine for three hundred years after Christ was here, finally becoming part of Catholic doctrine in the 4th century.
Jesus and God being "one" means that they are in agreement, not the same person.
All of your objections to non-trinitarians can be taken apart and refuted, easily. I just don't know why I should go through your VERY LONG post which addresses many issues that have already been discussed previously.
.
There is NO basis for the Trinity in the Old Testament, nor the New Testament. None at all. The Catholic Church itself has stated that there is no real basis for it anywhere in the Bible, per their article in the New Catholic Encyclopedia.
It is contrived from pagan traditions, and GRADUALLY formed into a doctrine for three hundred years after Christ was here, finally becoming part of Catholic doctrine in the 4th century.
Jesus and God being "one" means that they are in agreement, not the same person.
All of your objections to non-trinitarians can be taken apart and refuted, easily. I just don't know why I should go through your VERY LONG post which addresses many issues that have already been discussed previously.
.
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Elijah John
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Post #96
[Replying to post 93 by Overcomer]
Trinitarian revisionism, pure and simple. "Hints"...shouldn't such an important doctrine as the Trinity, (especially an eternal one) be conveyed explicitly, and repeatedly and not just with ambiguous "hints"?
Given the context of the time, (one of Hebraic monolatry) those "hints" of plurality are more likely vestiges of a time when other gods were acknowledged to have existed, but were not to be followed or worshipped. YHVH was the one God for the Hebrew people. The others were helpers at best. Or angels.
Or another more likely explanation is that the plural references were YHVH working with His angels to accomplish His will. Least likely was the notion of the "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" existing the Hebrew Bible "Old" Testament as Trinitarians understand those terms. First, the Holy Spirit OF God was not a separate "Person" in the OT. "Of" being the key word here. Second, the term "Son of God" referred either to a) a righteous man especially close to God, as in King David, or b) Israel collectively, as a whole.
So to project the Trinity back into the OK is indeed revisionism, and taking terms out of their Hebrew context and forcing Greco-Roman or Pagan meanings onto them.
Trinitarian revisionism, pure and simple. "Hints"...shouldn't such an important doctrine as the Trinity, (especially an eternal one) be conveyed explicitly, and repeatedly and not just with ambiguous "hints"?
Given the context of the time, (one of Hebraic monolatry) those "hints" of plurality are more likely vestiges of a time when other gods were acknowledged to have existed, but were not to be followed or worshipped. YHVH was the one God for the Hebrew people. The others were helpers at best. Or angels.
Or another more likely explanation is that the plural references were YHVH working with His angels to accomplish His will. Least likely was the notion of the "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" existing the Hebrew Bible "Old" Testament as Trinitarians understand those terms. First, the Holy Spirit OF God was not a separate "Person" in the OT. "Of" being the key word here. Second, the term "Son of God" referred either to a) a righteous man especially close to God, as in King David, or b) Israel collectively, as a whole.
So to project the Trinity back into the OK is indeed revisionism, and taking terms out of their Hebrew context and forcing Greco-Roman or Pagan meanings onto them.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Post #97
One of the keys to understanding the Trinity is 2 words among others.
WE have all read in the NT that there are 3 that bear witness and the 3 are one.
The 3 are one because the 3 are undivided and indivisible.
But there are actually 3 that bear witness
But they are indivisible
This is why we often hear God the Father,God the Son,God the Spirit-All three are one.
The one who coined this phrase way back then got it right.
This equals 1 God not 3
As to why there was no Trinity way back then is monotheism must replace polytheism.
Then the Trinity is to replace monotheism.Moses said that there will be a prophet coming .Jesus said if you believed Moses ,you would believe me,he spoke of me.The Trinity was unfolding in Moses' day
WE have all read in the NT that there are 3 that bear witness and the 3 are one.
The 3 are one because the 3 are undivided and indivisible.
But there are actually 3 that bear witness
But they are indivisible
This is why we often hear God the Father,God the Son,God the Spirit-All three are one.
The one who coined this phrase way back then got it right.
This equals 1 God not 3
As to why there was no Trinity way back then is monotheism must replace polytheism.
Then the Trinity is to replace monotheism.Moses said that there will be a prophet coming .Jesus said if you believed Moses ,you would believe me,he spoke of me.The Trinity was unfolding in Moses' day
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onewithhim
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Post #98
No way. You have said a lot of words, but no Scriptural backing. Where is the verse that you say mentions "the three that bear witness"? Would you kindly post that?earl wrote: One of the keys to understanding the Trinity is 2 words among others.
WE have all read in the NT that there are 3 that bear witness and the 3 are one.
The 3 are one because the 3 are undivided and indivisible.
But there are actually 3 that bear witness
But they are indivisible
This is why we often hear God the Father,God the Son,God the Spirit-All three are one.
The one who coined this phrase way back then got it right.
This equals 1 God not 3
As to why there was no Trinity way back then is monotheism must replace polytheism.
Then the Trinity is to replace monotheism.Moses said that there will be a prophet coming .Jesus said if you believed Moses ,you would believe me,he spoke of me.The Trinity was unfolding in Moses' day
Also, you say "God" is three Persons. However, Jesus said that "God" was ONLY the Father (John 17:3). How do you explain that?
.
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Yahwehismywitness
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Post #99
We are all 99.9 percent the same, DNA-wise. (By contrast, we are only about 99 percent the same as our closest relatives
Our father shares his spirit with Son (Matthew 3:16)and sends siblings after water baptism called spirit of truth. Become one accord Acts 1:14, Mathew 12:50
The Spirit of truth of Father� (John 14:17; 16:13)
After water baptism (1Peter 3:21, Acts 2:38, John 3:5
One Father: James 2:19, Matt. 23:9, Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 43:10
Two witnesses to be true John 8:17, Revelation 11:3
Our father shares his spirit with Son (Matthew 3:16)and sends siblings after water baptism called spirit of truth. Become one accord Acts 1:14, Mathew 12:50
The Spirit of truth of Father� (John 14:17; 16:13)
After water baptism (1Peter 3:21, Acts 2:38, John 3:5
One Father: James 2:19, Matt. 23:9, Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 43:10
Two witnesses to be true John 8:17, Revelation 11:3
Post #100
onewithhim,
1 Jo.5.7 (record,witness-same thing)
I said this equals 1 God not 3.
I did not use the word person,some do.
However,by indivisibility and undivided the 3 are 1.We cannot take 1 and make 3 ,then we would have gods.
The 3 have names,Father,Son,Spirit.
Tertullian,you probably know, coined Trinity and it seems to have stuck ever since describing this conjoint nature of the 3.
1 Jo.5.7 (record,witness-same thing)
I said this equals 1 God not 3.
I did not use the word person,some do.
However,by indivisibility and undivided the 3 are 1.We cannot take 1 and make 3 ,then we would have gods.
The 3 have names,Father,Son,Spirit.
Tertullian,you probably know, coined Trinity and it seems to have stuck ever since describing this conjoint nature of the 3.
