Is hell eternal or not?

[scorpia]

Just a couple of references;

2 Thess 1 : 7-9 : and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed in heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power .

This verse mentions the final punishment as an everlasting destruction....

Jude 7 : In a similair way, Sodom and Gomorrah and teh surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire

This verse is similair

Rev 20 :14-15 : The death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

This verse however mentions the punishment as a "second death"

Perhaps the latter verse doesn't negate that the "second death" is eternal. But then how is death eternal? Does it mean a long eternal period in a process of dying? Or does it mean a person will for the rest of eternity be dead? Is hell eternal or not?

[Greatest I Am]

[quote="Beta"]
The wicked are never given immortality, they never receive spirit-status , only the obedient believer shall put on immortality in the resurrection to eternal life.1Cor.15.

Beta
I do not see God spending eternity with us in Heaven looking down on Hell where all of God failure live. By definition God can not produce imperfection.
Regards
DL

[Greatest I Am]

I was thinking about this one verse in the Old Testament....

Daniel 12:2—And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

That's the one. Hmmm....seems pretty clear to me! =)

Love,
Madeline

Madeline
You describe us even after death as existing with contempt in our hearts for some of Gods "evil" souls. This existence can not be our legacy. Living with hate eternally. Impossible. All souls need to be perfect if produced by a perfect God.
Regards
DL

[Madeline]

I was thinking about this one verse in the Old Testament....

Daniel 12:2—And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

That's the one. Hmmm....seems pretty clear to me! =)

Love,
Madeline

Madeline
You describe us even after death as existing with contempt in our hearts for some of Gods "evil" souls. This existence can not be our legacy. Living with hate eternally. Impossible. All souls need to be perfect if produced by a perfect God.
Regards
DL

It's not me describing existing after death with everlasting contempt and shame in a persons heart, I simply showed the clear context of scripture. Impossible how, based on your philosophical assertion which cannot be backed up with scripture? God is perfect and he is also sovereign, which means that human beings cannot dictate whether a Righteous and Holy God is allowed to send someone to an eternity in hell. God is equal with his Severity and Grace (Romans 11:22), which means that punishment is eternal.

Love,
Madeline

[joer]

Is hell eternal or not?
No, it is not eternal.

From Rev 20:15 which is the last verse, it says that all those whose names are not written in the book of life was cast into hell. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After this, we see another scenario : a new heaven + a new earth + ALL THINGS NEW. This means ugly hell is no more. Ugliness, suffering, does not exist anymore in God’s creation b/c He creates ALL THINGS NEW.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Hell itself will be completely destroyed and the souls therein are no more in existence … anywhere. According to scripture, this is not a situation God wants us to be in. He wants us with Him in heaven to enjoy all He has to offer.

Medeline all the quotes in world will not change your mind if in your heart you believe That what Daniel said, and was the truth in his time, but not the quotes and understanding that Topaz presents and is THE TRUTH IN OUR TIME.

The understanding of quotes from the Bible, translations of the bible and the interpretations form the Bible, have constantly changed over time. So what we are taught changes over time. We have finally reach a level over understanding and knowledge where MUCH of what Jesus taught speaks PROFOUNDLY to us in our day and age. Which in his day and age was seen as blasphemous and completely false. BUT now we can SEE how wise he was.

So you can be shown the true but like the people of Jesus’' time if the truth you are presented with isn't taken to heart you suffer the consequences of your lack of discernment.

Hopefully people will begin to listen to the Truth and message of Peace and Love in of Father God through His son Jesus Christ before we destroy ourselves in a global conflagration. Thus making the End Days Prophesies a SELF - FULLFILLING PROPHSEY.

May God and The Holy Spirit Bless and Guide Us in understanding His Love for us.

[Madeline]

My lack of discernment?

FYI, that passage in Daniel is "prophetic" which means the truth to its meaning does not change according to time.

The understanding of quotes from the Bible, translations of the bible and the interpretations form the Bible, have constantly changed over time.

First it was "THE TRUTH IN OUR TIME" and the "truth in Daniels time" somehow changes the context of scripture. Now its bible translations!

Daniel 12:2

• (NIV) Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (NAS) Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
• (NLT) Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.
• (KJV) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (NKJV) And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (ESV) And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (DARBY) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame, to everlasting contempt.

Yeah, that's really hard to understand!

Where does it say in Revelation 21 that the Lake of Fire is somehow no longer in existence? The Lake of fire will remain since it was "prepared" for the devil and his angels, and all those who rebel against God.

Matthew 25:34—Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41—Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Both "the Kingdom of God" and "the Lake of Fire" are two places which were "prepared" in advance by God. Which means that the Lake of Fire will exist for all of Eternity as with the Kingdom of God. When God says that he makes "All things new", if we take that in a literal sense than that would mean that even the Kingdom of God would cease to exist. The Lake of Fire and the Kingom of God are eternal. The context is crystal clear, unless you don't want to see it or don't see it for some reason.

Love,
Madeline

[joer]

My lack of discernment?

only if you consider yourself like the people of Jesus’ time that I was referring to..

“ like the people of Jesus’' time if the truth you are presented with isn't taken to heart you suffer the consequences of your lack of discernment.”

FYI, that passage in Daniel is "prophetic" which means the truth to its meaning does not change according to time.

Funny I didn’t find this "the truth to its meaning does not change according to time. "
in the definition of prophesy I found. Maybe the difinition has changed since you learn it.

[Prophecy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Prophecy in a broad sense, is the prediction of future events or the speaking of divine words (divine Revelation) through chosen human messengers (prophets). The etymology of the word is Greek, from pro- "before" plus the root of phanai "speak", i.e. "speaking before" or "foretelling" (proclamation). Prophecy is a general term for assertions presented as the revelation of divine will. Sometimes the Greek word mantikê (divination) is translated as prophecy.[1]


Revelation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaRevelation is an uncovering or disclosure via communication from the divine of something that has been partially or wholly hidden or unknown. In monotheistic religions, revelation is the process, or act of making divine information known. Revelation in a religious sense is that which God, a god, or other supernatural being such as an angel makes known about divine will, principles, laws and doctrines.

joer wrote:
The understanding of quotes from the Bible, translations of the bible and the interpretations form the Bible, have constantly changed over time.

Then you wrote:

First it was "THE TRUTH IN OUR TIME" and the "truth in Daniels time" somehow changes the context of scripture. Now its bible translations!

Not exactly. The context doesn’t change the understanding changes and these changes including translations occur over TIME and I don’t mean a few years I mean over thousands of years. And I not saying the translation of your quote has changed over time. IT’S THE MEANING AND UNDERSTANDING THAT HAS CHANGED.

Greatest I Am lays this understanding of Jesus’ teachings of God to you plane as day.

Madeline
You describe us even after death as existing with contempt in our hearts for some of Gods "evil" souls. This existence can not be our legacy. Living with hate eternally. Impossible. All souls need to be perfect if produced by a perfect God.
Regards

Jesus said he didn’t come to take away from the prophets of old (like Daniel) but to add to them. And Jesus made a new covenant with God and gave us a new commandment to love one another as He and God Love us. Greatest I Am's statement reflect his or her Taking Jesus’ teaching to heart.

No one's going to tell you Madeline, what to believe one way or the other. You must hear the truth and discern for yourself what is true and what is not.

You hear truth from Topaz, Beta, Greatest I Am and myself. You don't seem very willing embrace or even acknowledge you understand what were saying.

Bless You Madeline.

[Beta]

The wicked are never given immortality, they never receive spirit-status , only the obedient believer shall put on immortality in the resurrection to eternal life.1Cor.15.

Beta
I do not see God spending eternity with us in Heaven looking down on Hell where all of God failure live. By definition God can not produce imperfection.
Regards
DL

Have you read all my posts on this topic ? I guess not , or you would have answered differently.
In the first inst. I never implied God had any failures and
secondly I have gone to great lengths to show scriptures that do not prolong human life in hell contrary to traditional belief. So I will say it again - the wicked will burn up in the lake of fire and become ash under the feet of the Saints. Mal.4v3.

[Goat]

My lack of discernment?

FYI, that passage in Daniel is "prophetic" which means the truth to its meaning does not change according to time.

The understanding of quotes from the Bible, translations of the bible and the interpretations form the Bible, have constantly changed over time.

First it was "THE TRUTH IN OUR TIME" and the "truth in Daniels time" somehow changes the context of scripture. Now its bible translations!

Daniel 12:2

• (NIV) Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (NAS) Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
• (NLT) Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.
• (KJV) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (NKJV) And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (ESV) And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (DARBY) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame, to everlasting contempt.

Yeah, that's really hard to understand!

Where does it say in Revelation 21 that the Lake of Fire is somehow no longer in existence? The Lake of fire will remain since it was "prepared" for the devil and his angels, and all those who rebel against God.

Matthew 25:34—Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41—Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Both "the Kingdom of God" and "the Lake of Fire" are two places which were "prepared" in advance by God. Which means that the Lake of Fire will exist for all of Eternity as with the Kingdom of God. When God says that he makes "All things new", if we take that in a literal sense than that would mean that even the Kingdom of God would cease to exist. The Lake of Fire and the Kingom of God are eternal. The context is crystal clear, unless you don't want to see it or don't see it for some reason.

Love,
Madeline

Well, it says 'many' , not all. And says 'Life', not 'cast into hell'.. just shame and contempt.

Tell me, why are you associating the 'everlasting shame and contempt' with the 'lake of fire'.

And matthew says that the 'fire' is everlasting, not someone staying there.

[Madeline]

Hi joer!

My lack of discernment?

only if you consider yourself like the people of Jesus’ time that I was referring to..

“ like the people of Jesus’' time if the truth you are presented with isn't taken to heart you suffer the consequences of your lack of discernment.”

FYI, that passage in Daniel is "prophetic" which means the truth to its meaning does not change according to time.

Funny I didn’t find this "the truth to its meaning does not change according to time. "
in the definition of prophesy I found. Maybe the difinition has changed since you learn it.

[Prophecy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Prophecy in a broad sense, is the prediction of future events or the speaking of divine words (divine Revelation) through chosen human messengers (prophets). The etymology of the word is Greek, from pro- "before" plus the root of phanai "speak", i.e. "speaking before" or "foretelling" (proclamation). Prophecy is a general term for assertions presented as the revelation of divine will. Sometimes the Greek word mantikê (divination) is translated as prophecy.[1]


Revelation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaRevelation is an uncovering or disclosure via communication from the divine of something that has been partially or wholly hidden or unknown. In monotheistic religions, revelation is the process, or act of making divine information known. Revelation in a religious sense is that which God, a god, or other supernatural being such as an angel makes known about divine will, principles, laws and doctrines.

joer wrote:
The understanding of quotes from the Bible, translations of the bible and the interpretations form the Bible, have constantly changed over time.

Then you wrote:

First it was "THE TRUTH IN OUR TIME" and the "truth in Daniels time" somehow changes the context of scripture. Now its bible translations!

Not exactly. The context doesn’t change the understanding changes and these changes including translations occur over TIME and I don’t mean a few years I mean over thousands of years. And I not saying the translation of your quote has changed over time. IT’S THE MEANING AND UNDERSTANDING THAT HAS CHANGED.

Greatest I Am lays this understanding of Jesus’ teachings of God to you plane as day.

Madeline
You describe us even after death as existing with contempt in our hearts for some of Gods "evil" souls. This existence can not be our legacy. Living with hate eternally. Impossible. All souls need to be perfect if produced by a perfect God.
Regards

Jesus said he didn’t come to take away from the prophets of old (like Daniel) but to add to them. And Jesus made a new covenant with God and gave us a new commandment to love one another as He and God Love us. Greatest I Am's statement reflect his or her Taking Jesus’ teaching to heart.

No one's going to tell you Madeline, what to believe one way or the other. You must hear the truth and discern for yourself what is true and what is not.

You hear truth from Topaz, Beta, Greatest I Am and myself. You don't seem very willing embrace or even acknowledge you understand what were saying.

Bless You Madeline.

*sigh* You need to take your own advice instead of ignoring the plain context of scripture. It's sad how you have to rely on the interpretations of man by posting links rather than Gods plain words. Copying and pasting articles from wikipedia doesn't help, it proved absolutely bubkis!

Matthew 11:25—At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Then you proceed to play semantics games and tell me that the context doesn't change but rather our understanding does. You can do better than that! God's words DO NOT change, nor does the context of scripture. In other words, "our understanding" and not the "Holy Spirits" is essentially the same as "Hey, I think I will interpret scripture according to my 'personal' interpretation." Please address the crystal clear context Daniel 12:2 of just go in circles and being non-responsive regarding the arguments I have posted. Hope this helps!

Love,
Madeline

[Madeline]

My lack of discernment?

FYI, that passage in Daniel is "prophetic" which means the truth to its meaning does not change according to time.

The understanding of quotes from the Bible, translations of the bible and the interpretations form the Bible, have constantly changed over time.

First it was "THE TRUTH IN OUR TIME" and the "truth in Daniels time" somehow changes the context of scripture. Now its bible translations!

Daniel 12:2

• (NIV) Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (NAS) Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
• (NLT) Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.
• (KJV) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (NKJV) And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (ESV) And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• (DARBY) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame, to everlasting contempt.

Yeah, that's really hard to understand!

Where does it say in Revelation 21 that the Lake of Fire is somehow no longer in existence? The Lake of fire will remain since it was "prepared" for the devil and his angels, and all those who rebel against God.

Matthew 25:34—Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41—Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Both "the Kingdom of God" and "the Lake of Fire" are two places which were "prepared" in advance by God. Which means that the Lake of Fire will exist for all of Eternity as with the Kingdom of God. When God says that he makes "All things new", if we take that in a literal sense than that would mean that even the Kingdom of God would cease to exist. The Lake of Fire and the Kingom of God are eternal. The context is crystal clear, unless you don't want to see it or don't see it for some reason.

Love,
Madeline

Well, it says 'many' , not all. And says 'Life', not 'cast into hell'.. just shame and contempt.

Tell me, why are you associating the 'everlasting shame and contempt' with the 'lake of fire'.

And matthew says that the 'fire' is everlasting, not someone staying there.

goat, you're not making any sense. Who said anything about "all"? Why are people making that passage more complicated then it should be? It's soooooo simple! God doesn't expect us all to be geniuses and figure out some hidden context.

Who said anything about "all" people being condemned? not me! And it makes not sense for the fire to be everlasting whilst there is nobody there.

Mark 9:44—Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Notice how it says "their" worm dieth not? So the person who is condemned doesn't suffer eternal torment and yet "their" worm for some weird reason doesn't die. Context, context, context, it is sooooo simple. If this still doesn't make any sense to you than there is nothing more I can do here on this thread.

Love,
Madeline