Jesus is God - Every knee shall bow

[Wootah]

Isaiah 45
22 “Turn to me and be saved,
all you ends of the earth;
for I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, ‘In the Lord alone
are deliverance and strength.’”
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame.
25 But all the descendants of Israel
will find deliverance in the Lord
and will make their boast in him.


Philippians 2:10-11
English Standard Version
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Is every knee meant to bow to God or to Jesus or is this evidence Jesus is God?

[Wrangler]

Now the context of Phil 2:10 is easy to gauge. Just read the verse before it to conclude who is Jesus.

(Php 2:9) Wherefore God highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name-
(Php 2:10) that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the earth,

Now who is deity again, God or his Son, Jesus?!

OK but isnt the name above all names only for God?

It is understood that God is the highest of all and His name is above everyone's. Now, He GAVE Jesus the name above all other names of those on earth and in the heavens, under the Lordship of the Father....how can the giver of a name be subordinate to anyone else? He obviously has all the authority and power, and He gives it to whomever He wishes.

Correct the Bible is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ is subordinate to His Father.

John 14:28 – "The Father is greater than I."
1 Corinthians 15:27-28 – "For 'He has put everything under his feet.' Now when it says that 'everything has been put under him,' it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ."
John 5:19 – "The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing."
John 10:29 – "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all."
Philippians 2:6-8 – "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage... he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!"
John 17:1-5 – "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you... I brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do."
Matthew 26:39 – "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
Luke 22:42 – "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

It's a topic that Trinitarians often avoid discussing because the concept of God being both Master and Servant presents an apparent contradiction. It's difficult to reconcile these two roles without creating a logical inconsistency.

One of many with the Trinity.

Asking them to explain, prove, and provide evidence for Hypostasis is, at best, quite entertaining.

F2F

I couldn't understand why I could not like this post. Then I realized I was not logged in! LOL

Very good post, stated succinctly. I read in today's devotional reading at 2 Kings 13:5 YHWH gave Israel a savior. This referenced savior is not Jesus. And this savior is obviously not YHWH, our God. This highlights a motif invoked many times in Scripture of AGENCY. The saving agent acts at the direction of the principle. Trinitarians prefer to gloss over AGENCY, obtusely denying the discernment that while God YHWH is our only real Savior, he sends AGENTS to do his bidding. And if we call these agents our savior, it does not make them God but agents of our one true Savior.

Another thing about discernment. Calling someone something does not make them that thing. If I call Judas my friend, it does not mean he is my friend who is loyal and won't betray me. We must be mindful not to take glory from God. He is our Savior even if we call his agents our savior also. The agent acts at the direction of the principle, not their own accord. God alone is sovereign.

[face2face]

Now the context of Phil 2:10 is easy to gauge. Just read the verse before it to conclude who is Jesus.

(Php 2:9) Wherefore God highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name-
(Php 2:10) that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the earth,

Now who is deity again, God or his Son, Jesus?!

OK but isnt the name above all names only for God?

It is understood that God is the highest of all and His name is above everyone's. Now, He GAVE Jesus the name above all other names of those on earth and in the heavens, under the Lordship of the Father....how can the giver of a name be subordinate to anyone else? He obviously has all the authority and power, and He gives it to whomever He wishes.

Correct the Bible is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ is subordinate to His Father.

John 14:28 – "The Father is greater than I."
1 Corinthians 15:27-28 – "For 'He has put everything under his feet.' Now when it says that 'everything has been put under him,' it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ."
John 5:19 – "The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing."
John 10:29 – "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all."
Philippians 2:6-8 – "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage... he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!"
John 17:1-5 – "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you... I brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do."
Matthew 26:39 – "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
Luke 22:42 – "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

It's a topic that Trinitarians often avoid discussing because the concept of God being both Master and Servant presents an apparent contradiction. It's difficult to reconcile these two roles without creating a logical inconsistency.

One of many with the Trinity.

Asking them to explain, prove, and provide evidence for Hypostasis is, at best, quite entertaining.

F2F

I couldn't understand why I could not like this post. Then I realized I was not logged in! LOL

Very good post, stated succinctly. I read in today's devotional reading at 2 Kings 13:5 YHWH gave Israel a savior. This referenced savior is not Jesus. And this savior is obviously not YHWH, our God. This highlights a motif invoked many times in Scripture of AGENCY. The saving agent acts at the direction of the principle. Trinitarians prefer to gloss over AGENCY, obtusely denying the discernment that while God YHWH is our only real Savior, he sends AGENTS to do his bidding. And if we call these agents our savior, it does not make them God but agents of our one true Savior.

Another thing about discernment. Calling someone something does not make them that thing. If I call Judas my friend, it does not mean he is my friend who is loyal and won't betray me. We must be mindful not to take glory from God. He is our Savior even if we call his agents our savior also. The agent acts at the direction of the principle, not their own accord. God alone is sovereign.

What you call agency I have come to know as God Manifestation. There so many examples of God Manifestation in the Bible but its important we look at how God describes Himself. Look at 1 Corinthians 8:6 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we live, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live.

God is one; He is a Unity—this is one of the foundational principles of Truth. He is the singular source of all power and creation in the universe, and without Him, there is no life.

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

God raised up Christ out of sinful flesh to overcome it, and in doing so, He was able to reconcile humanity to Himself through faith in Jesus Christ. As it clearly states "God was in Christ (mind and purpose) reconciling the world to Himself"

But there is struggle with agency!

The challenge lies in how we can manifest the glory of God, as it is completely unnatural to us. As Isaiah said, “All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass withereth, the flower fadeth” (Isaiah 40:6, 7). There is no inherent goodness (a characteristic of God) in humanity, and no glory in us that gives us weight. Therefore, we cannot manifest God’s glory on our own. But as the prophet continues, “the word of our God shall stand forever” (verse 8). The only way we can manifest God’s glory is by having His word planted in our hearts and minds, so it can bear fruit. When the word is multiplied in its effect, the whole earth will be filled with the glory of God.

The principles of God Manifestation in the Old Testament continue into the New Testament, where the Lord Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy: “the glory of the Lord shall be revealed.” The connection between the Testaments is seen in the birth of the Son of God, “Thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21). The name of Jesus means "He shall save," which gives us a clear understanding of God's memorial name. In Jesus, God was perfectly manifested, so that he could be the representative sent to save us from our sins, allowing God's glory to one day fill the earth.

God told Moses, “I will be with thee,” a promise that was confirmed in the Lord Jesus, who is called “Emmanuel,” meaning "God with us" (Matthew 1:23). The supreme manifestation of God in Christ, and the broader concept of God’s manifestation in found throughout the New Testament.

Unfortunately, believers today often think they already possess God's essence and immortality within them. However, the Bible clearly teaches that this glory and immortality is something we must seek. As it says in Romans 2:7: "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." Immortality is not something we inherently possess, but rather something we strive for through faith and obedience.

So God Manifestation is seen in our "seeking" and is no different to the "seeking" of Christ who seen in Hebrews 5:7 "In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence."

As you can see the struggle to reveal the Will of God was in Christ, as it is in us...."not my will but yours be done!"

F2F

[Wootah]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

[face2face]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

Look up Isaiah 11:3 - use the NET version and look at the notes...come back to me with your thoughts.

Let's start here and once you have gained some insight, we can move into the NT and make an important connection.

Here I'll give you the link https://netbible.org/bible/Isaiah+11

F2F

[face2face]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

You know, I could have replied "O ye of little faith" but somehow, I don't think that would have cut it.

If you understood this", “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.” you wouldn't need to ask that question...however, the positive is there is still more to learn.

F2F

[Wootah]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

You know, I could have replied "O ye of little faith" but somehow, I don't think that would have cut it.

If you understood this", “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.” you wouldn't need to ask that question...however, the positive is there is still more to learn.

F2F

You never do seem to debate.

Just snark.

Suppose an actor plays the role of a famous person. Could they ever fully perfectly be that person?

[face2face]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

You know, I could have replied "O ye of little faith" but somehow, I don't think that would have cut it.

If you understood this", “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.” you wouldn't need to ask that question...however, the positive is there is still more to learn.

F2F

You never do seem to debate.

Just snark.

Suppose an actor plays the role of a famous person. Could they ever fully perfectly be that person?

You can't open the Word?

What if I directed you to the creeds of men, would you go?

F2F

[face2face]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

This sits with you Wootah!

Look up Isaiah 11:3 - use the NET version and look at the notes...come back to me with your thoughts.

Let's start here and once you have gained some insight, we can move into the NT and make an important connection.

Here I'll give you the link https://netbible.org/bible/Isaiah+11

F2F

[Wootah]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

This sits with you Wootah!

Look up Isaiah 11:3 - use the NET version and look at the notes...come back to me with your thoughts.

Let's start here and once you have gained some insight, we can move into the NT and make an important connection.

Here I'll give you the link https://netbible.org/bible/Isaiah+11

F2F

The Holy Spirit is God btw.

But for you, how can a non-God Holy Spirit be a, 'Spirit that produces absolute loyalty to the Lord'? You are just pushing things one step back but still with the same problem.

The issue isn't the Bible, we agree the verses say what they say. The issue is the burden is too much on a finite creation to make restitution with an infinite God.

Ultimately, how can not-God pay for sins again God?

[face2face]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

This sits with you Wootah!

Look up Isaiah 11:3 - use the NET version and look at the notes...come back to me with your thoughts.

Let's start here and once you have gained some insight, we can move into the NT and make an important connection.

Here I'll give you the link https://netbible.org/bible/Isaiah+11

F2F

The Holy Spirit is God btw.

But for you, how can a non-God Holy Spirit be a, 'Spirit that produces absolute loyalty to the Lord'? You are just pushing things one step back but still with the same problem.

The issue isn't the Bible, we agree the verses say what they say. The issue is the burden is too much on a finite creation to make restitution with an infinite God.

Ultimately, how can not-God pay for sins again God?

It seems that the testing of your original question has shown you to be disingenuous in seeking an answer.

you asked

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

There’s no basis for further discussion if you’re not willing to engage with the Word of God.

When you're ready to address Isaiah 11:3, let me know.

F2F