A suggestion for Christians

[OnceConvinced]

One of the topics we often discuss here is what makes a true Christian and what assures salvation and thus eternal life in Heaven? The big problem is we get many different people coming through here claiming to have the truth and correct understanding of scripture. However many of these people contradict each other. This is not at all helpful and I'm sure you agree that if one gets it wrong the ramifications are horrendous and many people, like I have, could spend their lives genuinely following what they believed to be Christ and correct doctrine, but find they were never true Christians to begin with because of their ignorance.

I'd like to suggest all the Christians get together in the Holy Huddle room to remedy this problem.

First of all, using holy spirit discernment, weed out all those who aren't true Christians and with those of you left, nut out together what it takes to consider yourself a true Christian.

You all being true Christians and having the holy spirit within you, I would invisage no problem with accomplishing this task. You can then come back to us as a group with your final list of conditions to consider one a true Christian and worthy of eternal life; worshiping God for all eternity, thus ensuring that we lost and sinful folk have accurate information that we can accept or reject Christ by.

Also while you are at it, for those who completely reject the bible, perhaps you could also come to a unified agreement on what Hell actually is. Is it eternal suffering, death by fire or simply the grave? I'm sure with the understanding given to you by the holy spirit, this should be an easy question for you true Christians to answer and would leave us with little doubt what we are in for if we continue on our evil and abominable ways.

If any other people have any topics they'd like sorted out perhaps they can post them on this thread? I'm sure that the holy spirit will be able to deal with them all quickly and efficiently. Maybe at last we can find out what the real truth is and what the bible really is saying to us?

I look forward to our Christian members here showing the sort of unity Paul so desired amongst the believers. I'm sure you will be eager to assist God in spreading the truth to the rest of us here and the many thousands who come into this site and read.

......................


So now having read this OP do you agree that with the Holy spirit, this venture should be easily undertaken?

If not, why not?

And if Christians cannot come to a consensus amongst themselves, using the holy spirit to gain understanding, how can any unbelievers take the bible or Christians seriously? ](*,)

[catalyst]

Here's a good example...

In your last post you stated:

"Ihe word in itself claims no assumption that this taught belief system is actually valid"

What taught belief system?

A doctrine is a taught belief system. Individuals usually put their own "spin" to suit themselves ON it.

The scriptures are pretty clear
that one must put their faith and trust in God!

Yes, the TAUGHT scriptures of the bible.

No one can judge whether another
has or doesn't have faith in God.

It is God who knows our hearts!

If that is the case, then please feel free to quote the exact scripture where it states that. However what that has to do with validity OF faith, I don't know.

2Tim.2
[19] Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.

Luke.16
[15] And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts:

Acts.15
[8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Rom.8
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

So you had to be taught all that about "god". It was not just an intrinsic knowledge, was it ITF. Other religions, removed from the Abrahamic "god" model say very much the same sort of "stuff", but again that is all taught doctrine as well, despite many of them being arond a lot longer than your version. You discard those though right? I assume because in the bible it says (paraphrased) " Thou Shalt have no other Gods before me", so because it is written IN the bible and you were taught as such, it MUST be "truth".

Thank you for assisting in showing my point that doctrine indeed is a taught concept.

[dunsapy]

catalyst wrote;

I don't need to search for my personal life truths as they are with me daily. I can honestly say I don't "search" for some assumed "absolute truth" anymore.

Yes, I noticed that. That's really too bad. So have you really given up?
I know it's not an easy, search but there is truth.


Mat 7:13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

[McCulloch]

Mat 7:13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

Why did God rig stuff against us? Doesn't he love those created in his own image?

[dunsapy]

Why did God rig stuff against us? Doesn't he love those created in his own image?

God did not do that, Satan did. If you want to blame some one blame him.
Satan's taunt , to God, was, people only serve you, because of what you give them, not because they love you.
Adam and Eve took Satan's side, and so do most people on the earth, to the result you see the world in today. But there has always been a few, that even though imperfect, try to do what is right. It is these people, who the bible was written for. Though all are encouraged to accept it, most do not.

[McCulloch]

God did not do that, Satan did. If you want to blame some one blame him.

Is Satan beyond God's control? If so, why? If not, then why can't we blame God?

[dunsapy]

Is Satan beyond God's control? If so, why? If not, then why can't we blame God?

That actually is a good question. The answer is that this question is also in front of the angels and man. We all have free choice. So this time period was set to see how things turned out, alienated from God, so he let it happen. Also it showed Satan and the angels, that there would be ones that would serve him in spirit and truth. Despite the pressures from Satan. The bible is written in away that reaches these ones, but leaves others in darkness. This includes false Christian religions.
But God set a time that he would step in just before the complete ruination of the world of mankind and the earth itself. That is why people, have not seen , God step in yet. Though there are some things going on behind the scenes, that were foretold, would happen , during these last days.

[Gonzo]

Is Satan beyond God's control? If so, why? If not, then why can't we blame God?

That actually is a good question. The answer is that this question is also in front of the angels and man. We all have free choice. So this time period was set to see how things turned out, alienated from God, so he let it happen. Also it showed Satan and the angels, that there would be ones that would serve him in spirit and truth. Despite the pressures from Satan. The bible is written in away that reaches these ones, but leaves others in darkness. This includes false Christian religions.
But God set a time that he would step in just before the complete ruination of the world of mankind and the earth itself. That is why people, have not seen , God step in yet. Though there are some things going on behind the scenes, that were foretold, would happen , during these last days.

If God is all knowing and can see the consequences of all his actions and know which course they will take doesn't that remove the concept of free will since everything we are going to do is already mapped out and known for fact in God's mind? You know, since it wouldn't be able to happen any other way lest it contradict God.

[dunsapy]

If God is all knowing and can see the consequences of all his actions and know which course they will take doesn't that remove the concept of free will since everything we are going to do is already mapped out and known for fact in God's mind? Think You know, since it wouldn't be able to happen any other way lest it contradict God.

Well, this was always a possibility. But God really wanted man to succeed. From the bibles stand point, it will. This has done nothing to divert his purpose. This also did nothing to the time line that Jesus was supposed to give all things back to his Father. This time line was set, as the rest day of God. So when that time is up things will be just as God's purpose said it would be, and in the time that was set.
So nothing really in God's purpose has changed. Man could have spent this time in perfection, but chose to do the opposite.

[McCulloch]

But God really wanted man to succeed.

Why is it then that you portray your God as such a miserable failure? If God really did want humans to succeed, he would not make it so difficult for us.

This has done nothing to divert his purpose.

If part of his purpose is that humanity succeeds, then apparently you are wrong.

Man could have spent this time in perfection, but chose to do the opposite.

I did not choose to be less than perfect. Did you? Am I being condemned by God for a decision made by an ancestor about 6,000 years ago?

[InTheFlesh]

Here's a good example...

In your last post you stated:

"Ihe word in itself claims no assumption that this taught belief system is actually valid"

What taught belief system?

A doctrine is a taught belief system. Individuals usually put their own "spin" to suit themselves ON it.

The scriptures are pretty clear
that one must put their faith and trust in God!

Yes, the TAUGHT scriptures of the bible.

No one can judge whether another
has or doesn't have faith in God.

It is God who knows our hearts!

If that is the case, then please feel free to quote the exact scripture where it states that. However what that has to do with validity OF faith, I don't know.

2Tim.2
[19] Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.

Luke.16
[15] And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts:

Acts.15
[8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Rom.8
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

So you had to be taught all that about "god". It was not just an intrinsic knowledge, was it ITF. Other religions, removed from the Abrahamic "god" model say very much the same sort of "stuff", but again that is all taught doctrine as well, despite many of them being arond a lot longer than your version. You discard those though right? I assume because in the bible it says (paraphrased) " Thou Shalt have no other Gods before me", so because it is written IN the bible and you were taught as such, it MUST be "truth".

Thank you for assisting in showing my point that doctrine indeed is a taught concept.

Are you debating with yourself?
I was debating your quote.
First you were saying the word itself
doesn't say there is one taught system for truth.
But now you are saying
that doctrine is a taught concept?
Has anyone claimed otherwise?
I'm not debating against the bible
being a taught concept
because I know the bible has a teacher.

1John.2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Yes, the gospel is a taught concept!
But the real question is
who is doing the teaching?