Why do people want to go to Heaven?

[Topaz27]

I don't want to go to heaven. As far as I can tell one of these situations must be true.

1) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. If I knew that was true I would feel bad. Therefore I feel bad in heaven. Heaven can contain suffering. But according to Rev 21:4 There is no suffering in heaven. So this idea doesn't make any sense according to the Bible.

2) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. But this time I'm ok/happy about it. In that senario there would be some kind of change in my emotion, which I'm not ok with. I'm not ok with the idea that "I know that people are burning in hell, and that's ok with me." That idea disgusts me. So I wouldn't want to go to that kind of heaven.

3) I go to heaven, and I'm not aware that people are burning in hell forever. That's not okay with me either. First off if I end up in heaven, and some of my dead loved ones aren't there, it's pretty obvious where they would be. So this idea doesn't really make sense. But let's say that God erases my memories about my loved ones. I would hate that. I don't want to go to that heaven.

4) I go to heaven I don't know about people burning in hell, but I still feel terrible. This obviously makes no sense with the premises of heaven, but it is technically a possibility.

Heaven is always described as this amazing place where God fixes everthing. But it just doesn't seem like a good thing to me.

So I was wondering why/if people wanted to go to heaven. Both thiests and athiests.

If there are other options that exist please tell me.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Earth is what we know; it is where we were created to live. Most of us enjoy our surroundings and the interesting things we can do. Some love to fish, go boating, swim, lounge by the pool with a delicious mixed drink, hike, ride motorcycles or horses....others like to cook, make clothes, decorate their homes, have gatherings for friends and family, garden.....others love to study the stars, learn musical instruments, watch the many varieties of birds, take care of pets, fly planes......it could go on and on. Wouldn't anybody want to be able to continue to do these things, as well as have a physical relationship with one's spouse, and be able to hug one's friends and family?

We could do NONE of those things in heaven. I'm willing to bet that everyone on these forums does not want to die and go to heaven, but deeply wants to live on in this life here on Earth, and on into the future.

I want to be wherever my Lord (Jaheshua, the Chosen One of JAH) is. Even if that meant never again doing the things you listed, because my Lord comes first. He is the One I love (and love most).

Granted, the New Jerusalem (the Bride, the people who are in Christ) comes down out of heaven and is upon the earth; and the Tree of Life (Christ) is in that city (and the water flowing from the Tree of Life is holy spirit). Rev 22:1-3


We (who are in Christ) will live upon the earth, while also being able to enter the spiritual realm and come before the Father. We will be able to 'come in and go out'; just as the angels can do (and Christ said that we will be like the angels). And just as Adam could do before he was cast out of the "Garden of Eden" (in the spiritual realm).


This question has also been discussed on the following thread that you started (granted it has reached well over a hundred pages): viewtopic.php?t=31377&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0



Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

Peace to you,

Earth is what we know; it is where we were created to live. Most of us enjoy our surroundings and the interesting things we can do. Some love to fish, go boating, swim, lounge by the pool with a delicious mixed drink, hike, ride motorcycles or horses....others like to cook, make clothes, decorate their homes, have gatherings for friends and family, garden.....others love to study the stars, learn musical instruments, watch the many varieties of birds, take care of pets, fly planes......it could go on and on. Wouldn't anybody want to be able to continue to do these things, as well as have a physical relationship with one's spouse, and be able to hug one's friends and family?

We could do NONE of those things in heaven. I'm willing to bet that everyone on these forums does not want to die and go to heaven, but deeply wants to live on in this life here on Earth, and on into the future.

I want to be wherever my Lord (Jaheshua, the Chosen One of JAH) is. Even if that meant never again doing the things you listed, because my Lord comes first. He is the One I love (and love most).

Then why eschew the very reason he died for us? He died so that we might live as Jehovah intended for us to live in the beginning---on this beautiful planet---without ever having to die again. Jesus wasn't destined to have to die, when God created the earth. If Adam hadn't rebelled, he would still be here and Christ wouldn't have had to come here.

To set things back on track again, so God's will would be fulfilled, Jesus gave up his human life to give us ours back so that we could live on this earth forever.

"As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, but the earth he has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16)

"For this is what Jehovah says, the Creator of the heavens, the true God, the One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: 'I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.'" (Isaiah 45:18)


.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 61 by tam]

And didn't Christ tell you that the New Jerusalem is not a literal city, but is his "Bride," the anointed people from the earth who will reign with him? Didn't he tell you that the "city" is described in symbolic terms and not meant to be understood literally? For goodness' sake, the "city" is metaphorically described as being a perfect CUBE, reaching hundreds of miles out in space (if it was a literal city).....1,379 miles to be exact. Does that sound like a literal city?

You might ask your Christ to explain what Revelation 21:16 means again.



.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Earth is what we know; it is where we were created to live. Most of us enjoy our surroundings and the interesting things we can do. Some love to fish, go boating, swim, lounge by the pool with a delicious mixed drink, hike, ride motorcycles or horses....others like to cook, make clothes, decorate their homes, have gatherings for friends and family, garden.....others love to study the stars, learn musical instruments, watch the many varieties of birds, take care of pets, fly planes......it could go on and on. Wouldn't anybody want to be able to continue to do these things, as well as have a physical relationship with one's spouse, and be able to hug one's friends and family?

We could do NONE of those things in heaven. I'm willing to bet that everyone on these forums does not want to die and go to heaven, but deeply wants to live on in this life here on Earth, and on into the future.

I want to be wherever my Lord (Jaheshua, the Chosen One of JAH) is. Even if that meant never again doing the things you listed, because my Lord comes first. He is the One I love (and love most).

Then why eschew the very reason he died for us?

I'm not sure what you think that I 'eschewed' in my words above? I also never said the earth would not be inhabited, so again, I'm not sure what the rest of your comments even had to do with my post.

And didn't Christ tell you that the New Jerusalem is not a literal city, but is his "Bride," the anointed people from the earth who will reign with him?

Of course, as I have shared that on numerous occasions, even with you in the past, and also here in post 61. Did you not read the post that you are objecting to?

From that post, I wrote:

Granted, the New Jerusalem (the Bride, the people who are in Christ) comes down out of heaven and is upon the earth; and the Tree of Life (Christ) is in that city (and the water flowing from the Tree of Life is holy spirit). Rev 22:1-3

She is described as a city; in the same way that Babylon the Great(er) is described as a city. The New Jerusalem is the Bride, however, while BTG is the city (also not a literal city) made of people who claim to be the Bride, but who are adulteresses (they are unfaithful to Christ).

Didn't he tell you that the "city" is described in symbolic terms and not meant to be understood literally? For goodness' sake, the "city" is metaphorically described as being a perfect CUBE, reaching hundreds of miles out in space (if it was a literal city).....1,379 miles to be exact. Does that sound like a literal city?

I'm not sure the 'tone' is appropriate, since it is you who has misread. I very specifically wrote that the New Jerusalem was the Bride, made of people who are in Christ.

You might ask your Christ to explain what Revelation 21:16 means again.

How do I respond to this? You are the one who was mistaken about what I wrote, owh. So whatever the tone is that you are using, its kind of coming back around to you, isn't it?


And why are you taking issue? Because I stated that I wish to be wherever my Lord is, that I love Him the most; that He comes first? Why would you find fault with that? Or is just that those words highlighted what is lacking in the 'hope' that the WTS is selling?




Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 64 by tam]

I apologize. I miss-spoke about what I thought you said. I can't remember what started me off on that tangent. Maybe I thought you said that Christ would be IN the city and therefore I thought that you were talking about a literal city, my brain skipping over what you said about the Bride. I am sorry to be so sloppy in actually reading something.

I do get testy when you say things about the Watchtower "selling" something, or such things as that, casting aspersions on JWs. There is nothing to back up such loaded insinuations.

I just don't believe that Christ and his Bride will actually, literally, be coming down to Earth and ruling from here. There is no reason that I can see that they would come out of heaven, leaving the spiritual realm, and planting themselves here on the physical planet. Can you explain why you take that so literally when many other Scriptures portray Jehovah and also Jesus as being with us even though they are still in heaven?



.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 65 by onewithhim]

Maybe we should concentrate less on our differences and more on what we believe in common... from what I understand most Christians at least on this forum believe in a future earth where ideal conditions will prevail, of some duration. When I was growing up the Christians only seemed to talk about heaven when speaking about a future reward and the earth never seemed to figure in the picture.




This is at least progress....

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 64 by tam]

I apologize. I miss-spoke about what I thought you said. I can't remember what started me off on that tangent. Maybe I thought you said that Christ would be IN the city and therefore I thought that you were talking about a literal city, my brain skipping over what you said about the Bride. I am sorry to be so sloppy in actually reading something.

No need to apologize for misreading, dear owh (that was not the issue); and we all do that at times.

I did say that Christ would be in the city (Rev 22:1-3).

I do get testy when you say things about the Watchtower "selling" something, or such things as that, casting aspersions on JWs. There is nothing to back up such loaded insinuations.

To be clear, that would not be an aspersion on the people in the religion. If anything it would be an aspersion on the religion itself. You could change the word 'sell' to 'offer' and I think the point would still be made.

I just don't believe that Christ and his Bride will actually, literally, be coming down to Earth and ruling from here. There is no reason that I can see that they would come out of heaven, leaving the spiritual realm, and planting themselves here on the physical planet.

It is not one or the other (the physical or the spiritual); it is both.

Can you truly think of no reason why Christ and His Bride would literally come to the earth? You have already provided many reasons, but here is at least one more:


The Bride will have loved ones dwelling upon the earth (those who were not the Bride). Why would God design things so that they would never EVER see those loved ones again?

Why would Christ and His Bride have LESS freedom than the angels have right now?


Speaking of His sheep, Christ said:

"They will come in and go out, and find pasture."



Come in and go out of what?




Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 65 by onewithhim]

I just don't believe that Christ and his Bride will actually, literally, be coming down to Earth and ruling from here. There is no reason that I can see that they would come out of heaven, leaving the spiritual realm, and planting themselves here on the physical planet. Can you explain why you take that so literally when many other Scriptures portray Jehovah and also Jesus as being with us even though they are still in heaven?

Revelation is not like most other Scriptures; its genre is apocalyptic.

It is a series of visions that John saw and heard. That means it is painting pictures that are conveyed in language that may well be metaphoric but may nevertheless also include some literal language.

Numbers 12:

6 He said, “Listen to My words:

“When there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, reveal Myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.

7 But this is not true of My servant Moses;
he is faithful in all My house.
8 With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles

It is not talking about them "leaving the spiritual realm" or being "on the physical planet".

Instead, it is describing something new in kind, one that replaces "the old order" that had passed away, with "a new heaven and a new earth".

Heaven and earth will become one in that God and man will truly and fully be one and have the closest fellowship together, in perfect harmony.

Revelation 21:

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!� Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.�

Revelation 22:

3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and His servants will serve Him.

4 They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.
5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 65 by onewithhim]

Maybe we should concentrate less on our differences and more on what we believe in common... from what I understand most Christians at least on this forum believe in a future earth where ideal conditions will prevail, of some duration. When I was growing up the Christians only seemed to talk about heaven when speaking about a future reward and the earth never seemed to figure in the picture.




This is at least progress....

It seems to be a good idea, but it would not progress very far.

Evangelicals do appear to agree with JWs on a literal and future millennium on earth, but then there is hardly any consensis at all on the many details.

[Checkpoint]

I don't want to go to heaven. As far as I can tell one of these situations must be true.

1) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. If I knew that was true I would feel bad. Therefore I feel bad in heaven. Heaven can contain suffering. But according to Rev 21:4 There is no suffering in heaven. So this idea doesn't make any sense according to the Bible.

2) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. But this time I'm ok/happy about it. In that senario there would be some kind of change in my emotion, which I'm not ok with. I'm not ok with the idea that "I know that people are burning in hell, and that's ok with me." That idea disgusts me. So I wouldn't want to go to that kind of heaven.

3) I go to heaven, and I'm not aware that people are burning in hell forever. That's not okay with me either. First off if I end up in heaven, and some of my dead loved ones aren't there, it's pretty obvious where they would be. So this idea doesn't really make sense. But let's say that God erases my memories about my loved ones. I would hate that. I don't want to go to that heaven.

4) I go to heaven I don't know about people burning in hell, but I still feel terrible. This obviously makes no sense with the premises of heaven, but it is technically a possibility.

Heaven is always described as this amazing place where God fixes everthing. But it just doesn't seem like a good thing to me.

So I was wondering why/if people wanted to go to heaven. Both thiests and athiests.

If there are other options that exist please tell me.

Yes, there are other options.

Many know that God and Jesus are in heaven, and that it is peaceful there, with no crime and no death.

Not like it is here on earth.

So naturally they choose heaven!