I have been looking at many of the topics here on the site and finding a confusion about the Lord Jesus. Is he God or Not. I have notice many different doctrine that have been put forth.
But may I add just one more to the pot please, “Diversified Oneness�.
What is it? It is the doctrine that was taught by the Lord Jesus himself to his apostles, and written in the scriptures. I know the very first question you’re thinking right now is “where is this diversity in the scriptures". really all over the bible, from Genesis to Revelation.
First let me define it by the scriptures and then show it in the scripture. Definition, Scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star�.
Notice that word “offspring�. it is the Greek word, according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments, G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
See how the KJV can translate offspring, “diversity�. Meaning, that he, Jesus is God “diversified� or “shared� in flesh as a man, a OFFSPRING of man kind.
I have read, as said, some of the responses to this subject matter. Everyone has an angel to the Godhead, but what if we’re not asking the right question to get the right answers?
I would like to put forth a series of question that will eliminate any doubt about the deity of our Lord and the Godhead in totality.
My first question is this, “Who raised the Lord Jesus body up after he died on the cross?�. who did it.
I’ll be looking for your responses.
My motto is this. “where there is knowledge, stay not ignorant�.
Diversified Oneness
Moderator: Moderators
Post #61
101G wrote:
Again? How many times does one need to answer your questions before you can accept them? My answer is the exact same as the texts indicate. Your problem is that you don't accept the revelation of John or Paul. Even Christ points out that he is the Icon of God. Here's Paul's (and I agree completely with Paul's response to your question) response:now, let's put these scriptures to the TEST. again, I ask "who made all things".
your answer please.
"Of whom" refers to the fact that God is the origin of everything that exists. "Through whom" refers to the means of creation; it is by Christ that everything exists.there is ONE God, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
All things originate in God while the mechanism by which everything exists is Christ. So everything is made at the will of God by Christ/the word.
And you will never be able to get around the fact that Paul categorically denies that Christ is God. He and John clearly distinguish between the two. To make life easier for you and your theory, just grab a black marker and blacken those verses out. If I did that, I would then be able to agree with your theory. Just blacken those verses out so you can ignore them completely. Well, actually there are quite a few more verses you'll need to black out as well, but then you could just refer to my previous posts to figure those out as well.
Here's the best clue to your error that I can give you. Look up the definitions of Icon and Idol. You seem to think that idolatry is condoned in scripture; it isn't. Christ is the Icon of God. Christ is not an Idol; at least not to me he isn't. Paul never claims that Christ is the idol of the invisible God. He says that he'sSo there is quite simply no possibility of Paul or John or anyone ever to worship Christ as anything other than an Icon, and one doesn't actually worship an Icon, but what an icon represents. In our case, Christ represents God.the image (Greek:" εἰκὼν" eikon) of the invisible God Col. 1:15
Post #62
[Replying to post 61 by shnarkle]
thanks for the reply. and the reason why I ask the question is because you have never answered it.
JESUS is God, and there is no way around it, only those who have closed eyes cannot see it. so no need to discuss any further.
we who believe the scriptures as Thomas stated "My Lord and my God", see by Faith. so good day .
thanks for the reply. and the reason why I ask the question is because you have never answered it.
JESUS is God, and there is no way around it, only those who have closed eyes cannot see it. so no need to discuss any further.
we who believe the scriptures as Thomas stated "My Lord and my God", see by Faith. so good day .
Post #63
101G wrote:
1 Thessalonians 5:17 "Pray without ceasing.
1 Thessalonians 5:18 "In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1 Thessalonians 5:19 "Quench not the Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 5:20 "Despise not prophesyings.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1 Thessalonians 5:22 "Abstain from all appearance of evil.
that should shore you up a bit.
These fragments of Scripture are nonsensical on their own. You will recall:
Matthew 7:7-8 King James Version (KJV)
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
In some limited context there may be truth in the above advice; it is not generally true in practice. A little Ukrainian girl, whose parents were murdered, ran upstairs and prayed in her bedroom. The murderer said he heard her praying, and smashed her skull. A Rabbi in the Holocaust begged God to help a little boy who had been hanged but whose body was too light to let him die. No one was allowed to go near him. God heard nothing.
Man does best when he helps himself or his neighbour.
Post #64
marco wrote:101G wrote:
1 Thessalonians 5:17 "Pray without ceasing.
1 Thessalonians 5:18 "In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1 Thessalonians 5:19 "Quench not the Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 5:20 "Despise not prophesyings.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1 Thessalonians 5:22 "Abstain from all appearance of evil.
that should shore you up a bit.
These fragments of Scripture are nonsensical on their own. You will recall:
Matthew 7:7-8 King James Version (KJV)
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
In some limited context there may be truth in the above advice; it is not generally true in practice. A little Ukrainian girl, whose parents were murdered, ran upstairs and prayed in her bedroom. The murderer said he heard her praying, and smashed her skull. A Rabbi in the Holocaust begged God to help a little boy who had been hanged but whose body was too light to let him die. No one was allowed to go near him. God heard nothing.
Man does best when he helps himself or his neighbour.
first thanks for the reply, but those example you gave was not based on what I posted. God's will is to be done. I could say this or that. and have scripture to back it up. but here's the bottom line. be prepared to live this world which is only a created one, and not the real world. as said I could argue for or against the example you gave. but the main thing is be in Christ if DEATH or LIFE come knocking at your door.
Post #65
101G wrote:
I could argue for or against the example you gave. but the main thing is be in Christ if DEATH or LIFE come knocking at your door.
This is not a line of argument but a way of calling down silence. It has been used through the ages against those who would question Church dogma, usually with the words "anathema sit!" If one has truth then, by courtesy of the Spirit, one will provide stout arguments to back that truth. The gates of hell or of heresy will not prevail against those with God's truth burning like coal on their lips.
So if we are examining "diversified oneness" it is not enough to provide what seem to be irrelvant quotes. We must justify our private interpretation of those quotes.
Post #66
marco wrote:101G wrote:
I could argue for or against the example you gave. but the main thing is be in Christ if DEATH or LIFE come knocking at your door.
This is not a line of argument but a way of calling down silence. It has been used through the ages against those who would question Church dogma, usually with the words "anathema sit!" If one has truth then, by courtesy of the Spirit, one will provide stout arguments to back that truth. The gates of hell or of heresy will not prevail against those with God's truth burning like coal on their lips.
So if we are examining "diversified oneness" it is not enough to provide what seem to be irrelvant quotes. We must justify our private interpretation of those quotes.
there is no need to argue. 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".
so my "private interpretation" means nothing.
so the solution to any question is scripture itself.
Post #67
Another take away of "PERSON"(S) in the Godhead.
Traditionally, I said Traditionally. many people believe that the book of revelation is from three person as these verses appears to shows.
Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Person 1. "from him which is, and which was, and which is to come". many say that this is the Father, who is God.
Person 2. "from the seven Spirits". many believe that this is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, who is God.
Person 3. "from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness". ok that's a no brainier, God the Son.
My question, are these the three person that some claim that make up the Godhead?
A. the Father, B. the Holy Spirit, and C. the Son.
I say no, and if there are those who disagree please post your scripture to the effect of the positive vs my in the negative response.
I'll be looking for your responses.
Traditionally, I said Traditionally. many people believe that the book of revelation is from three person as these verses appears to shows.
Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Person 1. "from him which is, and which was, and which is to come". many say that this is the Father, who is God.
Person 2. "from the seven Spirits". many believe that this is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, who is God.
Person 3. "from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness". ok that's a no brainier, God the Son.
My question, are these the three person that some claim that make up the Godhead?
A. the Father, B. the Holy Spirit, and C. the Son.
I say no, and if there are those who disagree please post your scripture to the effect of the positive vs my in the negative response.
I'll be looking for your responses.
Post #68
101G wrote: Another take away of "PERSON"(S) in the Godhead.
Traditionally, I said Traditionally. many people believe that the book of revelation is from three person as these verses appears to shows.
Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Person 1. "from him which is, and which was, and which is to come". many say that this is the Father, who is God.
Person 2. "from the seven Spirits". many believe that this is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, who is God.
Person 3. "from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness". ok that's a no brainier, God the Son.
My question, are these the three person that some claim that make up the Godhead?
A. the Father, B. the Holy Spirit, and C. the Son.
I say no, and if there are those who disagree please post your scripture to the effect of the positive vs my in the negative response.
I'll be looking for your responses.
so then, I must assume that this is only one person who this book is from, and not three.
Post #69
[Replying to 101G]
As you say :
" by making a body of flesh in a woman womb that he "shared" himself" by coming in flesh. this flesh MANIFESTED the characteristics of the spirit that was in it. this MANIFESTATION is CONCRETE. meaning a concrete present of God in flesh, on earth. remember, the Spirit is shared, so as the Spirit he's everywhere as always, but at the same time shared in flesh."
Cannot by the grace of God any man born of woman can be a son of God?
But yes indeed John made Jesus the only son , important to his understanding of Christ ;
John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 "He came unto his own, and his own received him not".
This is what John wrote in response to the popular belief we can all be God's saying no only Jesus was God's sons.
But here comes my theology , why can't we all become sons of God through Christ?
Ya think Jesus wanted to be worshiped or teach us how to be sons of God too.
As you say :
" by making a body of flesh in a woman womb that he "shared" himself" by coming in flesh. this flesh MANIFESTED the characteristics of the spirit that was in it. this MANIFESTATION is CONCRETE. meaning a concrete present of God in flesh, on earth. remember, the Spirit is shared, so as the Spirit he's everywhere as always, but at the same time shared in flesh."
Cannot by the grace of God any man born of woman can be a son of God?
But yes indeed John made Jesus the only son , important to his understanding of Christ ;
John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 "He came unto his own, and his own received him not".
This is what John wrote in response to the popular belief we can all be God's saying no only Jesus was God's sons.
But here comes my theology , why can't we all become sons of God through Christ?
Ya think Jesus wanted to be worshiped or teach us how to be sons of God too.
Re: Diversified Oneness
Post #70[Replying to post 27 by 101G]
Firstly, none of the O.T. verses, which you supplied relate to the Son of God. The Hebrew word: Yahweh (H3068) relates to the Self-Existing One or the one and only True God, not the Son of God or the "oneness" of a Trinity. This pagan belief system (triune of gods) has a very long history and subsequently engulfed several cultures and is clearly forbidden in the Ten Commandments.
The Hebrew name given to the Son of God was Yahowshuwa or Joshua/Yehoshua (H3091), which has a meaning of: Yahweh (H3068) is salvation. So, it is obvious that the two names (Yahweh/Joshua) are not the same in the Hebrew language. Also, the name Joshua (H3091) was given to others, which are plainly recorded in the O.T. Therefore, to consider that "they" also could be addressed as Yahweh, because their names also means: Yahweh is salvation, surely is going beyond the reality of the subject.
The usage of "theophany" or embedding a reference or certain aspects that God has or gives is common in Hebrew proper names and can be found throughout the bible. But, this practice does not suggest the person (given the reference) is a god. It is only a figurative expression or the feelings/wishes, which the parents had for the child.
Note: In John 5:21, it is clear that the power of the Father (Yahweh) raises the dead, not the Son of God.
In James 1:13 it is claimed that God (Yahweh) cannot be tempted, but it is clear that the Son of God was. This is just another example of the error in believing that the Son of God is Yahweh. However, don't get me wrong, the Son of God has full authority over all things. There is no other being, besides his Father, who has more authority or power than the Son of God. Yet, he also will be subjected to Yahweh, when the new creation or the new beginning is completed.
One last point…
If we were to research a reliable Greek interlinear (related to John 1:1), it is clear that the usage of the terms: God and god are not the same words. The Greek word "theos" G2316 is a general term word, which is used to address "the powerful" and even a human being can be referred to as a god. A close review of the spelling of the words God/god is required to understand the context. It is also required that we reject preconceived beliefs and review the text for what it actually is intended to relay.
Therefore, your suggestion to myself and others to read the scriptures and/or your quotes, should be considered by yourself.
101G wrote:My respond, Read my last post, it gives OT and NT proof, but I'll give other scriptures.
Firstly, none of the O.T. verses, which you supplied relate to the Son of God. The Hebrew word: Yahweh (H3068) relates to the Self-Existing One or the one and only True God, not the Son of God or the "oneness" of a Trinity. This pagan belief system (triune of gods) has a very long history and subsequently engulfed several cultures and is clearly forbidden in the Ten Commandments.
The Hebrew name given to the Son of God was Yahowshuwa or Joshua/Yehoshua (H3091), which has a meaning of: Yahweh (H3068) is salvation. So, it is obvious that the two names (Yahweh/Joshua) are not the same in the Hebrew language. Also, the name Joshua (H3091) was given to others, which are plainly recorded in the O.T. Therefore, to consider that "they" also could be addressed as Yahweh, because their names also means: Yahweh is salvation, surely is going beyond the reality of the subject.
The usage of "theophany" or embedding a reference or certain aspects that God has or gives is common in Hebrew proper names and can be found throughout the bible. But, this practice does not suggest the person (given the reference) is a god. It is only a figurative expression or the feelings/wishes, which the parents had for the child.
No, he isn't. The bible makes it clear that the Spirit of God (Yahweh) is God's power or the ability to do what He does (Acts 1:6-8). These verses and several others, also shows that God (Yahweh) has authority above His only begotten. Such as: Matthew 24:36, 26:39, Mark 10:18, John 5:19-23, 26-27, 30, 14:28, 1Cor. 15:27-28.101G wrote:Just read the 7 letter to the Churches in the book of Revelation. Notice, in every letter it is Jesus the Son of God who is addressing each church right, but notice how each letter ends, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". yes, JESUS is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit.
Note: In John 5:21, it is clear that the power of the Father (Yahweh) raises the dead, not the Son of God.
In James 1:13 it is claimed that God (Yahweh) cannot be tempted, but it is clear that the Son of God was. This is just another example of the error in believing that the Son of God is Yahweh. However, don't get me wrong, the Son of God has full authority over all things. There is no other being, besides his Father, who has more authority or power than the Son of God. Yet, he also will be subjected to Yahweh, when the new creation or the new beginning is completed.
One last point…
If we were to research a reliable Greek interlinear (related to John 1:1), it is clear that the usage of the terms: God and god are not the same words. The Greek word "theos" G2316 is a general term word, which is used to address "the powerful" and even a human being can be referred to as a god. A close review of the spelling of the words God/god is required to understand the context. It is also required that we reject preconceived beliefs and review the text for what it actually is intended to relay.
Therefore, your suggestion to myself and others to read the scriptures and/or your quotes, should be considered by yourself.
