Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

[Wootah]

What was special about Jesus's sacrifice and in contrast why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Also was Jesus perfect?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #49]

When he was a mighty spirit in heaven he was called Michael or The Word

While he was a human on earth he was called Jesus

When he returned to heaven as a mighty spirit was once again called Michael /The Word

He never referred to Himself as Michael, not even after He returned to heaven. Just the opposite, in fact. He referred to Himself by His actual name (Jaheshua - though this is rendered [Jesus] in most translations).

Acts 9:5, Revelation 1:1, 22:16

"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am [Jesus], whom you are persecuting," he replied.

“I, [Jesus], have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”



(Nor did anyone ever call Him "Michael" in the bible. See Rev 1:1, as just one example of how a disciple referred to Him after He returned to heaven.)



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Revelations won]

Dear JW,

Overcomer wrote quoting your post and you posted as follows::

“Overcomer wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:39 pm
JW wrote:
Jesus birth as a result of God miraculously implanting a ferilized egg in the womb of the virgin girl Mary without her engaging in any sexual activity. That life being shielded from any imperfection it might have inherited from its imperfect mother, meant Jesus did not inherit adamic sin* and his lifecourse of perfect integrity meant that he not only was conceived and born perfect but lived a perfect, sinless life."

My response:


1 You first said: “Jesus birth as a result of God miraculously implanting a ferilized egg in the womb of the virgin girl Mary without her engaging in any sexual activity.”

Your statement is your opinion or the opinion of others and this description is speculation on your part, because Nowhere in the Bible is this stated.

2. You next stated: “He could thus present said human life as a perfect sacrifice to redeem mankind.”

May I remind you of the following:

Isaiah 50:4 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.
6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.
8 He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Overcomer said: “I thought JWs believed Jesus to be Michael the Archangel. How does that fit your description above?”

You also resonded:

“Michael is just another name for Jesus. Nothing changes if we call him Jesus, Micheal or The Word, we are still talking about the same PERSON.
When he was a mighty spirit in heaven he was called Michael or The Word

My response:

Now JW I would submit that nowhere can you prove from the Bible that Michael is Jesus. If so please show the scriptures which so declare this?


You said:

While he was a human on earth he was called Jesus

When he returned to heaven as a mighty spirit was once again called Michael /The Word”

I would, however, agree with you that He, meaning Jesus is also known as “The Word” or the “Creator”.

I would also submit that Christ was also tempted as other men as quoted:

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil

Luke 22: 28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29
And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.


Now JW, I think that the scriptures make it very clear that Jesus Christ “ was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Now JW, I have one other question to ask of you:

While I do not agree with you in your claim that Jesus Christ is Michael.

I would ask you to explain why Michael the Arch angel would cast Lucifer and those the followed him out of heaven down to this earth? Why did he not cast them to some other planet? Why would he allow them to be here to tempt us in the first place?

Kind regards,
RW

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus birth as a result of God miraculously implanting a ferilized egg in the womb of the virgin girl Mary

My response:

Your statement is your opinion or the opinion of others and this description is speculation on your part, because Nowhere in the Bible is this stated.

LUKE 1: 31

New American Standard Bible
"And behold, you will conceive in your womb ....

New Jérusalem bible
"Look! You are to conceive in your womb ..."

CONCEIVE

Create (an embryo) by fertilizing an egg.

Jesus birth as a result of God miraculously implanting a ferilized egg in the womb of the virgin girl Mary

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[JehovahsWitness]

....without her engaging in any sexual activity.

My response:

Nowhere in the Bible is this stated.

LUKE 1:34 NWT

But Mary said to the angel: “How is this to be, since I am not having sexual relations with a man?”

[JehovahsWitness]

That life being shielded from any imperfection it might have inherited from its imperfect mother...

.... this description is speculation on your part, because Nowhere in the Bible is this stated.

LUKE 1:35 NWT

“Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son

VINES : Overshadow

[ episkiazo ]

(b) metaphorically of the power of "the Most High" upon the Virgin Mary

JW




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[Overcomer]

JW wrote:

Michael is just another name for Jesus. Nothing changes if we call him Jesus, Micheal or The Word, we are still talking about the same PERSON.
When he was a mighty spirit in heaven he was called Michael or The Word
While he was a human on earth he was called Jesus
When he returned to heaven as a mighty spirit was once again called Michael /The Word

There's already another thread that offers good evidence re: Michael NOT being Jesus so I won't repeat those arguments here as that isn't the topic of this thread.

But, for the sake of argument, if Michael IS Jesus, then how does that make Jesus sin-free?

[JehovahsWitness]

But, for the sake of argument, if Michael IS Jesus, then how does that make Jesus sin-free?

Why are you asking me that? Are you suggesting I caimed Jesus heavenly name (Michael) was the reason he never sinned?



JW

[Overcomer]

JW wrote:

Are you suggesting I caimed Jesus heavenly name (Michael) was the reason he never sinned?

No, I'm not saying you claimed that. I'm still trying to understand why and how you think Jesus was sin-free. You've said he didn't have a human father, but I can't see how that would make Jesus sin-free, something he had to be to provide the perfect sacrifice. I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Let me try again. I'm asking if you believe that Jesus was sin-free because you believe he was the Archangel Michael in another guise.

[JehovahsWitness]

JW wrote:

Are you suggesting I caimed Jesus heavenly name (Michael) was the reason he never sinned?

No, I'm not saying you claimed that. ...

Good, rest assured, it has nothing to do with his being called "Michael" nor is it based on Jesus position or authority as The WORD/Michael prior to his human life. Just as naming your son "King" doesn't make him a king, Jesus heavenly name (Michael) didnt make him sin-free.

... I'm asking if you believe that Jesus was sin-free because you believe he was the Archangel Michael in another guise.

No. See above.



JW



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[JehovahsWitness]

You've said he didn't have a human father, but I can't see how that would make Jesus sin-free...?.

Like Adam, Jesus not having a human father meant he started his human life as a perfect creation of God, sin free. All natural descendants of Adam inherit their sinful state (meaning an innate leaning towards committing sinful acts) from our imperfect parents.

ROMANS 5:12

... just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin,+ and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned

If Jesus had a human father he too would have been BORN imperfect, making living a sinfree life, as impossible for him as it is for us.

PSALMS 51:5 NIV

Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

ECCLESIASTES 7:20

For there is no righteous man on earth who always does good and never sins.

ROMANS 3:23

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

To illustrate: If one were to bake bread in a tin with a dent in it, what are the chances any of the loaves would come out without an indentation? Adam broke the human "mold" when he sinned. All of his children would thereafter be born with the "indentation" of imperfection.

For Jesus to have any chance of living a sinless life, he couldnt be born as a natural decendent of Adam.




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