None good but God

[Wootah]

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Question: If there are none good but God how can a not good being pay for my sins?

[PinSeeker]

The word we should look at is Good in the Koine.

Agathon/s(what ever form) means intrinsically good. Intrinsically is in an essential or natural way. What is good by nature.

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/intrinsically

So, I agree with Jesus because man is not naturally good. God is that thing.

Only God is good. We have to choose to be. If one chooses to be enough times, it becomes almost reflexive but we still have to govern ourselves to stay that way. And even the best(most good) of us fail at one time or the other. God does not. All intrinsically good all the time. He is that which He will be.

I really don't disagree with any of this, Brian, but God says, through the prophet Isaiah, because of sin, "all (men) have become like one who is unclean" (meaning an adulteress) and that "all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment" (which actually means like dirty menstrual rags). So even if we choose to be good, and even if we do a lot of good things, we are still not good at all. Surely, neither you nor anyone else here would ever attribute that to Jesus, but that's effectually (albeit unintentionally) what you are doing. Only His works were untainted (to put it mildly) by sin. Only He was without blemish. Only He -- along with the Father -- was/is "intrinsically good," and "good by nature," as you say. And that's because He was (and is) God in the flesh. Immanuel, which translated means God With Us (Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23).

So, along with the angels, we sing (or should, anyway), "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.� And we would join every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.�

Grace and peace to you all.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 49 by onewithhim]

I agree. That's why I cited these three texts in a comment before, in this own thread:

Heb. 2:10 For it was fitting for the one for whose sake all things are and through whom all things are, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the Chief Agent of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

... 5:8 Although he was a Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered; 9 and after he had been made perfect he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10 because he has been specifically called by God a high priest according to the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.

... 7:28 for the Law appoints men high priests having weakness, but the word of the sworn oath that came after the Law appoints a Son, who is perfected forever.

The Scriptures say Jesus was perfected when he was a human. They even say Jesus "learned obedience from the things he suffered" (Heb. 5:8) ... Then what? If Jesus is suppose to be as "good" as Jehovah and he was saying something different of what is clearly understood from Mark 10:18, why he still had to be perfected and learn obedience under sufferings? So was he good as God or wasn't he?

Jesus is still learning things:

John 5:20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, in order that YOU may marvel.

So what is that we are trying to mean with the word "good"? A good teacher? A good person? A good sacrifice? ...

Are we meaning someone who has nothing to learn? ... nothing to perfect about himself? Absolutly not ... Then we were talking about GOD, the only One who is perfect in everything, and as Jesus said the only one who is really good. One thing is Jesus, for sure: a good apprentice of his Father.

John 5:19 Therefore, in answer, Jesus went on to say to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner.

Ah! But do not ignore the import of the very next three verses (21-23), which you conveniently cut off here:

• "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."

Well good grief, I guess I could have highlighted the entirety of that, because essentially, I did. Jesus is God (the Life Giver, the Judgment Executor, the One through Whom all things came into being, in Whom was/is Life, and the life was the Light [Exodus 13-16] -- the pillar of cloud and the pillar of fire guiding, protecting, and nourishing -- of men [John 1, John 6-8]).

Grace and peace to you all.

[Eloi]

The next three verses don't change a thing about what is said before. Jesus is still an apprentice of Jehovah.

John 14:28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am. 29 So now I have told you before it occurs, so that you may believe when it does occur. 30 I will not speak with you much more, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has no hold on me. 31 But for the world to know that I love the Father, I am doing just as the Father has commanded me to do. Get up, let us go from here.

And again: does that disqualify him of having been a good sacrifice?

[PinSeeker]

The next three verses don't change a thing about what is said before. Jesus is still an apprentice of Jehovah.

<chuckles,,,>

Jesus refers to the Father as being greater than He is because He is reproaching the disciples for their selfishness. He had told them that He was going back to the presence of the Father. If they truly loved Him (and were not simply thinking about themselves), this announcement would have caused them to rejoice. Now immediately we can see what the term “greater� really means. If it meant “better� as in “a higher type of being,� these words would have no meaning. Why would the disciples rejoice because Jesus was going to see a being who is greater than He? Why would that cause rejoicing? But the term does not refer to “better� but “greater� as in positionally greater. The Son was returning back to the place He had with the Father before the world was (John 17:5). So we see that the term “greater� speaks to the position of the Father in heaven over against the position of the Son on earth. The Son had voluntarily (Philippians 2:6) laid aside His divine prerogatives and humbled himself by entering into human flesh. He would soon be leaving this humbled position and returning to His position of glory.

Grace and peace to you, Eloi.

[Eloi]

[Replying to PinSeeker]
Behave yourself. Please, respect the rules of the forum. Thanks.

If Jesus were not an apprentice of Jehovah, he would not have needed to take the sealed scroll from his hand to know its contents:

Rev. 6:1 And I saw in the right hand of the One seated on the throne a scroll written on both sides, sealed tight with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice: “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?� 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or underneath the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. 4 I gave way to a great deal of weeping because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. 5 But one of the elders said to me: “Stop weeping. Look! The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its seven seals.�
6 And I saw standing in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a lamb that seemed to have been slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, and the eyes mean the seven spirits of God that have been sent out into the whole earth. 7 At once he came forward and took it out of the right hand of the One seated on the throne. 8 When he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb, and each one had a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense. (The incense means the prayers of the holy ones.) 9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.�

Does that make him a non-good sacrifice?

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to PinSeeker]
Behave yourself. Please, respect the rules of the forum. Thanks.

If Jesus were not an apprentice of Jehovah, he would not have needed to take the sealed scroll from his hand to know its contents:

Rev. 6:1 And I saw in the right hand of the One seated on the throne a scroll written on both sides, sealed tight with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice: “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?� 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or underneath the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. 4 I gave way to a great deal of weeping because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. 5 But one of the elders said to me: “Stop weeping. Look! The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its seven seals.�
6 And I saw standing in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a lamb that seemed to have been slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, and the eyes mean the seven spirits of God that have been sent out into the whole earth. 7 At once he came forward and took it out of the right hand of the One seated on the throne. 8 When he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb, and each one had a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense. (The incense means the prayers of the holy ones.) 9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.�

Does that make him a non-good sacrifice?

<chuckles...> Thanks for the "advice."

In the Revelation passage above, He has returned to the place He had with the Father before the world was (John 17). Again:

Jesus refers to the Father as being greater than He is because He is reproaching the disciples for their selfishness. He had told them that He was going back to the presence of the Father. If they truly loved Him (and were not simply thinking about themselves), this announcement would have caused them to rejoice. Now immediately we can see what the term “greater� really means. If it meant “better� as in “a higher type of being,� these words would have no meaning. Why would the disciples rejoice because Jesus was going to see a being who is greater than He? Why would that cause rejoicing? But the term does not refer to “better� but “greater� as in positionally greater. The Son was returning back to the place He had with the Father before the world was (John 17:5). So we see that the term “greater� speaks to the position of the Father in heaven over against the position of the Son on earth. The Son had voluntarily (Philippians 2:6) laid aside His divine prerogatives and humbled himself by entering into human flesh. He would soon be leaving this humbled position and returning to His position of glory.

Grace and peace to you.

[Eloi]

[Replying to PinSeeker]

John 14:28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am. 29 So now I have told you before it occurs, so that you may believe when it does occur.

Jesus didn't say "the Father is up and I am down" ... don't imagine things. He was talking in a universal sense: "my Father is greater than I am", and he is talking about going there and get something from his Father who can give him a lot of others things he needed to help his disciples, like the spirit he received from his Father to send it to his disciples after he received it from him:

Luk. 24:49 And, look! I am sending forth upon YOU that which is promised by my Father. YOU, though, abide in the city until YOU become clothed with power from on high.�

... and it is so that he still in heaven calls Him as his God:

Rev. 3:12 “‘The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.

Does that make Jesus a non-good sacrifice?

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 57 by Eloi]
<chuckles> See above. Grace and peace to you, Eloi.

[Eloi]

I won't see PinSeeker's imagination ... but what the Scriptures and Jesus himself has to say about any matter.

If Jesus said he does not want to be called "good" and he wants his followers to see the real goodness in God, his Father, who is PinSeeker or who is Wootah, or who is anybody else to say something different to what he said?

The idea of a God the Son won't let you know the Son of God, and that is really bad, because knowing God and His Son is very important, a sine qua non, to obtain eternal life:

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Jesus said not even Jews who he was talking to knew really God, but he does, and he tried to show God to his disciples as He really is... and today some people want to confuse others about what he taught, instead of teaching what can lead them to the eternal life. Too bad.

John 13:16 Most truly I say to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master, nor is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him.

[PinSeeker]

...knowing God and His Son is very important...

On this we agree 100%.

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Right, but don't cut off there, as the next couple of verses are intimately relevant to the conversation at hand. Christ, praying to the Father, continues (emphasis added):

"I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

John 13:16 Most truly I say to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master, nor is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him.

Very interesting that you quote this verse. Do you think anyone is claiming Jesus is greater than the Father? Surely not... "nor is one that is sent (He, Jesus) greater than the one (the Father) that send Him (Jesus)." But neither is He lesser. This is EXACTLY what Jesus is saying here, that He and the Father are equal in deity.

Neither I nor Wootah nor any one of us need to refute what you say, as Scripture does this all on it's own. The double-edged sword is the Word itself. Temporally speaking, Jehovah's Witnesses refute themselves. Such is one of the ways that God's Word never returns to Him empty.

Grace and peace to you, Eloi.