What does this verse prove?

[Elijah John]

I, even I, am YHVH; and beside me there is no savior.
King James Version

For debate:

What does this verse prove, Biblically?

Does it prove that Jesus is YHVH?

Or does it prove that YHVH, not Jesus, is the Savior?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 49 by brianbbs67]


Seems there is a discrepancy. Does God change he rules?

Was the garden not on earth?


Genesis 1:29
Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 44 by 2timothy316]

It seems to have been predetermined.

Acts 4:27-28 New International Version (NIV)

27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

Jesus himself asserted that it was predetermined:


Matthew 26:1-2 New International Version (NIV)

1 When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, 2 “As you know, the Passover is two days away—and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.�


There is no plan B.




Tcg

[RightReason]

[Replying to 2timothy316]

You never answered my question. Given so many different translations that different groups/individuals all claim to be the 'correct' one, how can we know who is correct? Did God think of this?

Scripture reveals God saying, "This is my beloved son, listen to him". Then we hear Jesus establishing His Church and saying, "He who hears you, hears me". Infact, it is this Church that decided what was even to be included in the Bible and considered canon. Do you take God at His word? He told us to listen to His son, who told us to listen to His Church. If we trusted her to give us Sacred Scripture in the first place, we really ought to trust her with interpreting said Sacred Scripture.

Otherwise, of course many different individuals/groups could all claim Scripture means X (with X always being different). Well, that's a little problematic! It's unscriptural and illogical to think anyone can just pick up Sacred Scripture and say it means what he/she thinks it means. God recognized this and gave us an authoritative earthly guide (His Church) -- nothing else makes sense.

I just don't understand how more people do not get this. Why would anyone be comfortable joining some Christian denomination because they really like Pastor Pete who is a great public speaker, or love how this particular church emphasizes full immersion Baptism or that church emphasizes designating 2 years of your life to missionary work, or that church has an amazing choir, etc. Or equally illogical, why would someone say I renounce any church who claims to have the answers -- my only authority is the Bible, when the Bible itself never claims to be our only authority! Gaaaaaah . . .

Unfortunately, many of us want our faith the way we want our faith. It doesn't work that way! As G.K. Chesterton used to say, "I don't want a church to be right when I am right, I want a church to be right when I am wrong." To follow any other church than the one Christ established is to really just be following your own church and you can never know for sure if you are getting it right.

[ttruscott]

Why would God engage in the same practice he condemned others for?

Because they knew HIS plan for our salvation came by the work of the Divine Son being born a man and dying for us, they tried to besmirch, erode and corrupt that plan by planting a myriad of angel-human hybrids to confuse the divine plan...or at least their spiritual Father knew and directed them to his purpose, which got them imprisoned.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 40 by 2timothy316]

In the end it was a spiritual and human union that resembled that which caused those Spiritual entities to come under condemnation. Why would God have imitated this in order to bring the Messiah into existence?

They imitated HIS righteous plan even though they got to initiate their rebellious plan first...which condemned them to darkness for their rebellion.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 53 by ttruscott]

But this was the act of defiance. Your concept relies on some pre human disobedience.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 44 by 2timothy316]

I'm not a believer. I simply cross examine the textual concepts. I am constantly informed that some text I've quoted does not really mean what is transmitted by the words in it.

What do you make of the meaning of these verses?

1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

John 14:17...the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

[ttruscott]

Did Jehovah create Adam to die?

Assuming Adam did indeed die, there are only two options:
1. Jehovah created Adam to die.
2. Jehovah is impotent and events outside of his control happen.

No one was created to die as that would mean they were created in sin which is impossible because light (righteousness) does not create dark (evl), it utterly destroys darkness. Dark (evil) is only produced when something impedes the light, and in the case of the reality not the metaphor, the free will of the sinner (created innocent) impeded righteousness by a rebellious choice to oppose HIS call, and become as evil as the evil they caused.

Death is the wages paid for sin NOT the price of being created. The holy elect angels will never die. GOD did not create Adam to die but after Adam chose to sin, HE did sow him, Matt 13:38-39, by HIS breath into the garden as a sinful man to be able to die....1 Corinthians 15:21 For since death came through a man...

[postroad]

[Replying to post 56 by ttruscott]

I think of them often especially when I see doctrinal and personal disputes among believers.
Was there really such division even among those in authority that John was forced to send a letter circumventing a rival in the hierarchy?

3 John 9-11 New International Version (NIV)

9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will not welcome us. 10 So when I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, spreading malicious nonsense about us. Not satisfied with that, he even refuses to welcome other believers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.

11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.



Your situation reminds me of Paul's claims

Galatians 1:11-12 New International Version (NIV)

Paul Called by God
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:8 New International Version (NIV)

8 Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.

It seems that this text applies to the whole history of Christianity.

Acts 20:29-31 New International Version (NIV)

29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 57 by ttruscott]

if you presuppose old age and death as unnatural conditions in an ultimately finite universe.