Why are so many people so determined to worship Jesus? It is not a Biblical imperative. "Worship Jesus" is not a Commandment. And there is plenty of Biblical evidence that Jesus is not God. (Just talk to any Jehovah's Witness, most seem adept at supporting their beliefs with Scripture)
So why is it that so many people are so determined to worship Jesus? Even in light of evidence (Biblical and otherwise) that Jesus is not God.
Childhood or cultural conditioning? Indoctrination? Or hero worship taken to the extreme?
Is the prevelance of Jesus-worship evidence of a very human tendency to worship our heroes?
Why are people so determined
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Elijah John
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Why are people so determined
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Re: Why are people so determined
Post #51brianbbs67 wrote: Duet. 12:29 into 13 is but one example.
I see.
"The Lord your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land ..... "
What a horrible passage. God, creator of the infinite regions of space, "cuts off and dispossesses" and allows people to be invaded and killed. For what reason? Ah - they were bad. They had different superstitions. God sounds awfully petty.
As I said, it is hard to find examples of Yahweh doing anything that is clearly good and helpful. Yes, he moved the Red Sea to kill some Egyptians. There was no other way.
Re: Why are people so determined
Post #52[Replying to post 50 by marco]
"What a horrible passage. God, creator of the infinite regions of space, "cuts off and dispossesses" and allows people to be invaded and killed. For what reason? Ah - they were bad. They had different superstitions. God sounds awfully petty.
As I said, it is hard to find examples of Yahweh doing anything that is clearly good and helpful. Yes, he moved the Red Sea to kill some Egyptians. There was no other way."
So killing few Egyptians was good but killing others was not?
"What a horrible passage. God, creator of the infinite regions of space, "cuts off and dispossesses" and allows people to be invaded and killed. For what reason? Ah - they were bad. They had different superstitions. God sounds awfully petty.
As I said, it is hard to find examples of Yahweh doing anything that is clearly good and helpful. Yes, he moved the Red Sea to kill some Egyptians. There was no other way."
So killing few Egyptians was good but killing others was not?
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Elijah John
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Re: Why are people so determined
Post #53Even before the formal forumlation of the Trinity, Jesus was worshipped. But the point of the OP is why some (not all) early Christians chose to worship him, when that is not even a New Testament imperative. And in fact there is arguably more New Testament evidence that Jesus is not God. So there is in fact a Biblical alternative to Jesus-worship.dio9 wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
Jesus is worshiped because he holds the place of savior in the trinity. God is all in one Father Mother and savior. I can't speak for everyone but God is all that; Parent comforter nurturer and savior. Like in Tao, there can be no yang without yin. Tao is an impersonal god if you will compared to Christianity , where we have a savior as well making God whole .
And if Jesus is not God, isn't Jesus-worship a form of idolatry? Soft-idolatry at best?
Regarding Jesus role as "savior" in the Trinity, the Hebrew Bible indicates that YHWH (not Jesus) alone is savior. (Isaiah 43.11)
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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brianbbs67
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Re: Why are people so determined
Post #54It was good for Isreal. The other superstitions included some pretty depraved stuff. Still do. Murder is the commandment, not kill. Evil should be destroyed as needed before it spreads like a plague and infects everyone. I know, now you will say , who am I to judge good or evil? We all have an innate sense of good and evil. Like a famous Supreme court judge said" I can't define pornagraphy, but I know it when I see it."marco wrote:brianbbs67 wrote: Duet. 12:29 into 13 is but one example.
I see.
"The Lord your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land ..... "
What a horrible passage. God, creator of the infinite regions of space, "cuts off and dispossesses" and allows people to be invaded and killed. For what reason? Ah - they were bad. They had different superstitions. God sounds awfully petty.
As I said, it is hard to find examples of Yahweh doing anything that is clearly good and helpful. Yes, he moved the Red Sea to kill some Egyptians. There was no other way.
The only ones who completely block this knowledge of good and evil enough to continue with their acts are sociopaths. So, should we allow a nation of sociopaths to continue if they start to affect us, just because we might have to kill a few rapists and serial killers?
Last edited by brianbbs67 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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brianbbs67
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Re: Why are people so determined
Post #56[Replying to Elijah John]
In the first chapter of Johns gospel John teaches us about how creation came to be and Jesus's nature being true God "in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God". He also teaches us that Jesus is also true man "and the word became flesh and dwelt among us.
Thomas backs up this teaching by calling Jesus "my Lord and my God".
But about the Son he said, your throne O God will last forever. Your love for righteousness and hate wickedness therefore God your God has set you above all your companions. God the Father calls Jesus God.
Who being in the very nature God did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage, but rather he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. Therefore God exalted him to the highest place that at the name of Jesus every knee must bend in heaven, on earth and under the earth and confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
In him dwells the fullness of the deity in bodily form.
In the first chapter of Johns gospel John teaches us about how creation came to be and Jesus's nature being true God "in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God". He also teaches us that Jesus is also true man "and the word became flesh and dwelt among us.
Thomas backs up this teaching by calling Jesus "my Lord and my God".
But about the Son he said, your throne O God will last forever. Your love for righteousness and hate wickedness therefore God your God has set you above all your companions. God the Father calls Jesus God.
Who being in the very nature God did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage, but rather he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. Therefore God exalted him to the highest place that at the name of Jesus every knee must bend in heaven, on earth and under the earth and confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
In him dwells the fullness of the deity in bodily form.
Re: Why are people so determined
Post #57[Replying to post 52 by Elijah John]
Yes I'm trying to say God is the Law giver savior and nurturer all in one.
Yes I'm trying to say God is the Law giver savior and nurturer all in one.
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Elijah John
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Re: Why are people so determined
Post #58Where?
Also, so we have the Evangelist John, Paul and "Thomas" suggesting that Jesus is God, (but never really coming out and saying "Jesus is God"). against the rest of Scripture. Particularly the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) where God is always considered One, and Spirit, not incarnate.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Re: Why are people so determined
Post #59[Replying to Elijah John]
The writer of Hebrews attributes psalm 45:6,7 to being God the Father speaking about his son Jesus being righteous and God (the Son). So we can see Jesus as being God the Son in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
As to John, Paul and Thomas they are testifying to Jesus being God the Son.
The writer of Hebrews attributes psalm 45:6,7 to being God the Father speaking about his son Jesus being righteous and God (the Son). So we can see Jesus as being God the Son in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
As to John, Paul and Thomas they are testifying to Jesus being God the Son.
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brianbbs67
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Re: Why are people so determined
Post #60[Replying to post 58 by Jack]
Trinitarian schribes hard at work, monkeyed here too.
IMG_1029 by brianbbs67, on Flickr
And the original
IMG_1030 by brianbbs67, on Flickr
Don't get my angle wrong, Christ is referenced in the OT several times. But, this is not one. And once you realize the RCC changed Tanakh to fit their doctrine, we are back to what Christ warned us about, "teaching as Doctrine the laws of man."
Trinitarian schribes hard at work, monkeyed here too.
IMG_1029 by brianbbs67, on FlickrAnd the original
IMG_1030 by brianbbs67, on FlickrDon't get my angle wrong, Christ is referenced in the OT several times. But, this is not one. And once you realize the RCC changed Tanakh to fit their doctrine, we are back to what Christ warned us about, "teaching as Doctrine the laws of man."
