How and when did the Trinity become Christian dogma?

[polonius]

(1) Mark 12:28-30
One of the scribes, when he came forward and heard them disputing and saw how well he had answered them, asked him, “Which is the first of all the commandments?�29Jesus replied, “The first is this: ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone!30You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’j

(2) However, while Jesus remained a man (“Son of God, or Son of Man) and was raised from the dead by God, about 85 AD, Jesus began to be considered divine himself. His can be seen in John’s gospel written about 95 AD.
This broke with the traditional Old Testament teaching that the Lord was one, resulted in the Christians being excluded from the Hebrew synagogues, and the Christians labeled as heretics (“minim�).

(3) … According to Berakhot 28b, Samuel ha Katan (fl. c. 80-110), at the invitation of Gamaliel II of Jabneh, composed the "benediction against the minim," included in the Amidah as the twelfth benediction (see E. J. Bickerman, in HTR, 55 (1962), 171, n. 35). This was directed primarily against Judeo-Christians (specifically mentioned in one old text—see Schechter, JQR 10 (1897 / 98)), either to keep them out of the synagogue or to proclaim a definite breach between the two religions." 3
[See article Genizah Specimens / Liturgy, by Solomon Schechter, in The Jewish Quarterly Review, Volume 10, 1898, pages 654 - 659.]

(4) Arianism was a counter movement which claimed that Jesus was not divine himself and a large group of Christians reverted to this view.

(5) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binitarianism#History

After the 325 Council of Nicaea defeated Arianism, the Council of Constantinople was called in 381 in order to attempt to deal with the binitarians, who were referred to as "Semi-Arians". However, as the Trinity was finalized at this time as official Christian doctrine, the offended Semi-Arians walked out. "They rejected the Arian view that Christ was created and had a different nature from God (anomoios dissimilar), but neither did they accept the Nicene Creed which stated that Christ was 'of one substance (homoousios) with the Father'. Semi-Arians taught that Christ was similar (homoios) to the Father, or of like substance (homoiousios), but still subordinate"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Cr ... itan_Creed

(6) “What is known as the "Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed" or the "Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed"[21] received this name because of a belief that it was adopted at the Second Ecumenical Council held in Constantinople in 381 as a modification of the original Nicene Creed of 325…

“It differs in a number of respects, both by addition and omission, from the creed adopted at the First Council of Nicaea. The most notable difference is the additional section "And [we believe] in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver-of-Life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spake by the prophets….�

[polonius]

[Replying to post 47 by tigger2]

A reading of the Bible as a whole must be done and interpreted by Christ’s Church who alone was given such authority.

.

So the church says the Bible and the Bible says the church?

Just like the old preacher who said he could prove God exists explained, it says so in the Bible!

It's called a '"circular argument" But many people fall for this type of claim.

[RightReason]

[Replying to polonius.advice]

One Jehovah verses three Jehovahs.

LOL! The Trinity is ONE God -- like I said people attack what they do not understand.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 44 by 2timothy316]

“Jehovah Our God Is One Jehovah�

And how does the Trinity contradict this? Shows you don't even know what the doctrine of the Trinity means.

There is no mention of anyone else. Do you have a scripture that is as clear as this? That says, 'Jehovah God is Jesus'? No. You have to cherry pick 1000s of scriptures but first prime it with an interpretation. On the other hand I can answer you with scripture alone with no interpretation added. Trinitarains can read the Bible without church constructed 'trinity-colored' glasses.

I don't think anyone knows what the trinity means. After all isn't it some big mystery that no one can actually understand?

The Trinity: A Mystery for Eternity
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/201 ... -eternity/

It shows no trinitarians know what the doctrine of the trinity means. No one ever will, forever.

2 Timothy 2:1 says, "Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright."

Those that came up with the trinity doctrine didn't 'handle the world of the truth aright'. They use scripture only as a prop to their interpreted ideas. Dragging out 1000s of scriptures out of context that by themselves mention nothing about a trinity. You know this to be true, I know it, everybody knows it. Yet trinitarins are OK with it because they the doctrines of men trump what the Bible says. The trinity doctrine doesn't let the Bible speak. It speaks for the Bible and that practice to me is unacceptable.

[2timothy316]

Sure. Even Scripture itself shows us the first Christians disagreed on things and the matter needed to be decided by the Church.

Show us where a trinity was debated in the Bible. Why aren't the findings of the Catholic Church and the trinity added to the Bible? Is it because they are not inspired by God and God doesn't want it in His book? Why are the church's writings kept separate from the Bible if their conclusions are inspired by God?

[polonius]

Sure. Even Scripture itself shows us the first Christians disagreed on things and the matter needed to be decided by the Church.

Show us where a trinity was debated in the Bible. Why aren't the findings of the Catholic Church and the trinity added to the Bible? Is it because they are not inspired by God and God doesn't want it in His book? Why are the church's writings kept separate from the Bible if their conclusions are inspired by God?

RESPONSE: They are not kept separate. They form the New Testament.

[2timothy316]

Sure. Even Scripture itself shows us the first Christians disagreed on things and the matter needed to be decided by the Church.

Show us where a trinity was debated in the Bible. Why aren't the findings of the Catholic Church and the trinity added to the Bible? Is it because they are not inspired by God and God doesn't want it in His book? Why are the church's writings kept separate from the Bible if their conclusions are inspired by God?

RESPONSE: They are not kept separate. They form the New Testament.

The decree of the trinity was not completed until the forth century. Please show me where in the NT those decrees are added. I said show me were the trinity doctrine was argued in the Bible. Respond with scripture please. (Have your read all of the Greek Scriptures?)

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 56 by 2timothy316]

And how does the Trinity contradict this? Shows you don't even know what the doctrine of the Trinity means.

There is no mention of anyone else.

Exactly – ONE God

Do you have a scripture that is as clear as this?

There is a great deal of Scriptural support of the Trinity.

There is no statement in Scripture that says, “God is three Persons in one being, and here is the proof. . .�
However, the New Testament does bring God (Father), the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit together in such a way as to strongly imply the Trinitarian nature of God. Three Scriptures are quoted below as a summary of the various other biblical passages that bring together the three Persons of the Godhead. One Scripture is from the Gospels, another is from the apostle Paul and a third is from Peter. The words in each passage referring to each of the three Persons are italicized to emphasize their Trinitarian implication:
All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19).

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all (2 Corinthians 13:14).

To God’s elect…who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood (1 Peter 1:1-2).

These three passages, one on the lips of Jesus, and the other two from leading apostles, each bringing together the three Persons of the Godhead in an unmistakable way. But these are only a sampling of other similar passages. See also Romans 14:17-18; 15:16; 1 Corinthians 2:2-5; 6:11; 12:4-6; 2 Corinthians 1:21-22; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 2:18-22; 3:14-19; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:6-8; 1Thessalonians 1:3-5; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; and Titus 3:4-6. Read each of these passages and note how God (Father), Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit are brought together as instruments of our salvation.

Such passages show that the New Testament faith is implicitly Trinitarian. None of these passages say directly that “God is a Trinity…� or “This is the Trinitarian doctrine…,� but they don’t need to. The books of the New Testament are not formal, point-by-point treatises of doctrine. Nonetheless, these and other Scriptures speak easily and without any self-consciousness of God (Father), Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit working together as one. The writers show no feeling of strangeness in joining these divine Persons together as a unity in their salvific work. Systematic theologian Alister E. McGrath makes this point in his book Christian Theology:

The foundations of the doctrine of the Trinity are to be found in the pervasive pattern of divine activity to which the New Testament bears witness…. There is the closest of connections between the Father, Son, and Spirit in the New Testament writings. Time after time, New Testament passages link together these three elements as part of a greater whole. The totality of God’s saving presence and power can only, it would seem, be expressed by involving all three elements. (page 248)

Such New Testament Scriptures answer the charge that the Trinity doctrine was developed only after several centuries and that it reflects “pagan� ideas, and not biblical ones. If we look at Scripture with an open mind regarding what it says about the being we call God, it’s clear that he is shown to be Triune in nature. The Bible reveals that the Father is God, Jesus the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet the Bible also insists that this is only one God. These biblical teachings led the early church to formulate the doctrine of the Trinity.

We can confidently say that the Trinity, as a truth regarding God’s essential being, has always been a reality. It was not completely clear in the Old Testament. But the Incarnation of the Son of God and the coming of the Holy Spirit revealed that God was Triune. This revelation was made in concrete fact, in that the Son and the Holy Spirit broke into our world at definite points in history. The Triune revelation of God in historical time was later described in the word of God we call the New Testament.
https://www.gci.org/God/3Bible
50 Biblical Evidences for the Holy Trinity - National Catholic Register
www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/50-b ... ly-trinity
1.


The evidence is there: 26 Top Bible Verses About the Trinity - Father, Son, Holy Spirit Scriptures

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical ... e-trinity/

You have to cherry pick 1000s of scriptures but first prime it with an interpretation.

Hmmmmm . . . like soul sleep, paradise earth, the non existence of hell? Got it.

The trinity doctrine doesn't let the Bible speak. It speaks for the Bible and that practice to me is unacceptable.

Well, the practice of suggesting Scripture alone is our authority is actually unscriptural! The Bible can’t speak, sooooooo . . . . All Scripture must be interpreted. This is the reason Christ established His Church and gave her the authority, “Thou art Peter and upon this rock, I build my church�, “Whatever you bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven . . . “, “If he should refuse to listen, even to the church . . . “, Scripture refers to the Church as ‘the pillar and foundation of truth’

Why aren't the findings of the Catholic Church and the trinity added to the Bible?

Because unlike JW’s the Catholic Church does not add or delete from the Bible. She accepts it as is and interprets it under the guidance of the Holy Spirit accordingly.

Why are the church's writings kept separate from the Bible if their conclusions are inspired by God?

I don’t know what this means. Christians are expected to listen to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition (the Church) One does not trump the other and neither are a secret. There is much you do not understand.

The decree of the trinity was not completed until the forth century. Please show me where in the NT those decrees are added.

Why would they need to be? The Church was given authority by Christ Himself to teach and preach. “He who hears you, hears me� Christ was not referencing the Bible here – He was referencing the Church!!!!!!

I said show me were the trinity doctrine was argued in the Bible. Respond with scripture please.

Asked and answered. Is that all you got?

[polonius]

[Replying to polonius.advice]

One Jehovah verses three Jehovahs.

LOL! The Trinity is ONE God -- like I said people attack what they do not understand.

RESPONSE" They may also attack what is clearly in error!

[polonius]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Cou ... r_Arianism

"According to surviving accounts, the presbyter Arius argued for the supremacy of God the Father, and maintained that the Son of God was created as an act of the Father's will, and therefore that the Son was a creature made by God, begotten directly of the infinite, eternal God. Arius's argument was that the Son was God's very first production, before all ages. The position being that the Son had a beginning, and that only the Father has no beginning. "

If someone tries to argue that Christ is divine ( the second person of the Trinity) one has to explain how he could be begotten and had a beginning in time.

If such were true he would not be co-eternal with God, would he?

[2timothy316]

I said show me were the trinity doctrine was argued in the Bible. Respond with scripture please.

Asked and answered. Is that all you got?

You have not answered in scripture. You interpret the Bible using eisegesis, a practice I do not accept as a valid way to interpret the Bible. I do not want to hear your argument, I want to read where the apostles were debating the trinity.

I do not want to hear about those that argued 300 years after the Bible was completed. Their arguments are not in the Bible. Again, show us all the scripture where Paul, Peter, John etc argued about the a trinity.