The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[peacedove]

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 50 by Monta]

We forever are not going to die, so whatever our situation, GOD is with us.

Only if we are believers who have thus become His sons and daughters.

Such alone have eternal life, having passed from death to life.

The biblical story is a sample of the best and the worst in human nature which could have been written about any other people on earth.
It's purpose is not history but spiritual development.

Yes, the spiritual development that comes from spiriual salvation and being a new creation as God's children.

[peacedove]

[Replying to post 47 by William]

William, I think you are missing something. Missing the main thing: the Christian faith is the inversion of the power elite, the rejection of coercion and the system of liberty and peace.

There are two basic streams of thought or thrusts woven through the Scriptures and the scheme of redemption: the royal consciousness and the prophetic consciousness. The royal consciousness is monarchical and represents a benevolent guardian monarchy, imposing an order of justice by force. Which is doomed to failure, it breeds oppression and death. The prophetic consciousness is the critique and anti-dote to not just the failings of application and administration of the royal system, but the development of a new kind of system of peace and social order and harmony that does not rest upon imposing order and ruling with coercion. The royal system is the flesh, as it manifests visibly and as a territorial kingdom of dominion and power, and the prophetic system, the messianic kingdom is the spirit, its power operates subtly but powerfully, it is based on unseen and abstract concepts and feedback.

These two streams of thought can be seen in the prophets speaking to the kings and those holding that fleshly power. They predicted the failure of the royalty and the coming of the new system, the messianic kingdom.

Jesus taught a new kind of monarchy, a new kind of kingdom that is difficult to understand and discern, but can be seen by the wise, those enlightened and drawn by the spirit. He taught men to judge for themselves, rather than to judge others and be judged by others. He taught internal motivation as the main motivation for living righteous lives in peace with others. And he taught that the kingdom of God, the messianic kingdom, is manifested by men, in his name holding counsel, the court of the three. Each side chooses one judge, and together they choose a third. And the power of the court of the three is limited to declaring decisions and does not extend to throwing people in jail, using force to seize property or resort to capital punishment. A highly decentralised and gentle system of resolution of conflicts and appeal to honour. This really is an alternative to traditional monarchy by the power elite.

Sadly the Christian church has turned away from that prophetic consciousness and sought to revive and royal system of death.

I hope we restore what was lost and can comprehend it and to live under its gentle institutions.

[onewithhim]

Yes, Jesus concentrated on guiding his people in the preaching work when he took his throne in 1914. Before that, no he wasn't doing that.

So before 1914, Jehovah's Witnesses didn't preach? Or did they preach but were unguided by Jesus?

Fair question. Jehovah's people didn't do much preaching at all until around 1879 when Gods's Spirit began nudging people to pay attention to what the churches were doing or were not doing. It was time to get things organized for the final intensive preaching work to take place before the end of the system of things. (Matthew 24:14) One young man was troubled by the churches not preaching about Jesus Christ's ransom. He studied the Bible deeply and evaluated what the churches were teaching in light of what the Bible was saying. He found them all wanting, when he compared what they said with the Bible. He started a Bible study group which developed into the organization of the "Bible Students," which later became known as Jehovah's Witnesses. They went BACK to the original teachings of Jesus, before the great Apostasy had occurred.

When the organization was on solid footing and had begun reaching out beyond the United States, Jesus did begin guiding them when he began ruling in 1914.

[onewithhim]

Also, please post your own words, or those of scripture, when replying to my posts, without organisation material.

You are not the boss of me. I will post any words I like, in any order with quotations from whatever organisational source I see fit. If you believe my posts violate forum guidelines feel free to report them. Otherwise I do believe that most computers have a mechanism by which one can scroll down if one finds the contents of a post personally displeasing.

I also believe there is an "ignore" option on this forum.

You're welcome,

JW

I second that. And I am using it more and more. People are making their positions known more firmly and more obviously as the days go by! They are making their choices as to whether or not they want the truth. (And haven't you been asked to explain Jehovah's Witnesses' viewpoint on things? What better way than to provide a link to those explanations? Yet you get castigated for giving "organizational material"!) Imagine outright rejecting Jesus' own guided spiritual material that refreshes all those who partake of it. It is quite baffling. But I guess it shouldn't be, as we know who rules the world! (I John 5:19)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]

If the question is meant: what do you think N.T. authors have to say about the temporal aspect of the Kingdom of God, then the answer is most certainly present and future.

That the kingdom of God is in the future is the easier to defend: Paul's 'God will be all in all". The more difficult is the argument that it has already begun, but is not completed.

But there are also indications that the Kingdom of God is present. In the opening of Gal., Paul declares Jesus has delivered us from this present age. The wording is quite explicit. Paul strikes the balance--the present age continues (it is present, after all), and yet Christians are delivered from it (presumably into a non-present age, i.e., the future).

In Matthew Jesus says that the Kingdom of God is "among you", and therefore not future. But he also speaks of a future time of judgment (both good and bad; feasts and festivities as well as banishment).

Jesus was speaking TO THE PHARISEES when he said that the Kingdom was in their midst. What did he mean? That HE, as the designated future King, was there among them.

Tell me, if you've got it all figured out, why Jesus taught us to pray FOR THE KINGDOM TO COME if it was already there! (Matt.6:9,10)

[William]

[Replying to post 48 by JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witness literature never shows the face of God (we call God Jehovah) in our illustrations; in the picture above is an artists impression of the resurrected Jesus (JWs are not trinitarians so God and Jesus are not viewed as being the same).

JW

Does the Jehovah's Witness religious organisation think of Jesus in any way as GODs representative in the affairs of humankind? Does the imagery convey that Jesus is doing a 'Jesus impression of GOD' or are the two unrelated in regards to that?

The image expresses a Monarchical idea of GOD, in the form of Jesus, so unless you are saying that Jesus did not represent GOD, or that the artist impression does not represent 'the real' Jesus, are you not simply splitting hairs in regard to both artist impression and what the Jehovah's Witness religious organisation are trying to convey through the message of the artwork?

As to what I said in my previous post, while the organisation claims it is not part of Christendom, due to those two points I spoke of, the organisation is undeniably one of the many daughters of Christendom.

Certainly Christendom's shared impression of Jesus is like the picture in the artists impression.

[onewithhim]

Peace to you JW,

[Replying to post 6 by JehovahsWitness]

The King is in place now (since 1914)

I must disagree with the 1914 inference, based upon my Lord's own words. From His words, He has been "in place" for much much longer than that, considering all authority in heaven and on earth was given to Him almost two thousand years ago. (Matt 28:18)

But also from His words to John (at the time He told John to write to the seven congregations):

The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. Rev 3:21

Sat down. Past tense. He had already sat down on the throne by the time He told John to write to the seven congregations. By the time He even gave this revelation TO John.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Did you hear of Psalm 110? It says: "The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord [the Messiah] is: 'Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet'." Jesus was to wait for quite a long time before taking his throne as King....until his enemies were subdued, and I would say that that coincided with the ending of the Gentile times mentioned at Luke 21:24. According to Bible chronology, those Gentile times ended in 1914.

An understanding of that is available, if a person wants to avail him or herself of that.

[William]

[Replying to post 53 by peacedove]

William, I think you are missing something. Missing the main thing: the Christian faith is the inversion of the power elite, the rejection of coercion and the system of liberty and peace....

When you take out the middle part (which in your own way agrees with a lot of what I also said) you are left with the beginning of your post and the end which are poles apart.

...Sadly the Christian church has turned away from that prophetic consciousness and sought to revive and royal system of death.

*what I said* :/

Christendom and her daughters think they are following the true GOD and would swear on the Bible that GOD is the true GOD.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to William]


"The choice - as -ever, is up to the individuate consciousness. That is the gift we all receive. We forever are not going to die, so whatever our situation, GOD is with us.

Hope it is a happy place. "

You have divided God into a false God and true God.
As there is only One God, the division arises in our perception.
Some are better than others and none get it quite right.
Those who had NDE tell us there are no earthly words to describe their experience
of what they witnessed in heavenly light while we are in the natural light.

The biblical story is a sample of the best and the worst in human nature which could have been written about any other people on earth.
It's purpose is not history but spiritual development.

Those who had NDE experienced what drugs do to the brain, period. They had "witnessed in heavenly light" exactly what the populations of the various native tribes have done through the years when they smoked their peyote or consumed some special mushrooms.