Was it right for God to order Abraham to kill?

[marco]

In modern times we have people telling us that their God told them to kill. We think this absurd. But God told Abraham to murder Isaac. It doesn't matter what the outcome was, we have a precedent for God telling a human to murder another human and not, apparently, because the boy deserved to die, as did the suckling infants in another tale.

Is the command correct just because it is God's?

Was Abraham right in agreeing to commit murder?

[Zog Has-fallen]

Was it right for God to order Abraham to kill?

Yes, God has a right to test us. Indisputably, God's command was just a test.

BECAUSE of the Abraham story, it cannot be argued that God would never ask this. Your line of argument supports this dangerous view.

On the contrary, I'm only affirming the justice of God in testing whomever He chooses. For Abraham, it was plausible that God wanted him to sacrifice his son but it was quickly revealed that God isn't like that. Nevertheless, I do confess believing that God tests Christians today and I do acknowledge that my view of God is threatening to just about anyone that has a superficial theology.

[marco]

On the contrary, I'm only affirming the justice of God in testing whomever He chooses.

I don't see the connection between "justice" and "testing whomever he wants." To ask for the murder of a child isn't justice.

For Abraham, it was plausible that God wanted him to sacrifice his son but it was quickly revealed that God isn't like that.

It wasn't "quickly" revealed that "God isn't like that." The command, not the outcome, is the issue.

Nevertheless, I do confess believing that God tests Christians today and I do acknowledge that my view of God is threatening to just about anyone that has a superficial theology.

Well apparently he tests Muslims as well. I suppose there is no reason why we should accept the Abrahamic God is good. The Bible does not provide evidence. I wonder what a superficial theology is and, more to the point, how one develops a non-superficial theology.

[marco]

If God actually would never order humans to kill...why is he depicted as doing so here in the Binding of Isaac story? Why doesn't God say to Abraham, right after Abraham hears the voice that tells him to sacrifice his son "No, Abe, that wasn't me! Don't kill your son!"?

Importantly, Abraham accepted that God could issue such a command. His intention to kill his son, by our common sense standards, is wicked. If by believing in Yahweh we can make wicked into good, then we must question our faith or abandon common sense.


The story tells us that God can ask people to kill the innocent. When we make this point, somebody somewhere will ask whether Isaac was innocent, and then justify his attempted murder by alleging some wicked deed was done by the boy.

The simple elements are these: God: Kill your son. Abraham: O.K.

[rikuoamero]

If God actually would never order humans to kill...why is he depicted as doing so here in the Binding of Isaac story? Why doesn't God say to Abraham, right after Abraham hears the voice that tells him to sacrifice his son "No, Abe, that wasn't me! Don't kill your son!"?

Importantly, Abraham accepted that God could issue such a command. His intention to kill his son, by our common sense standards, is wicked. If by believing in Yahweh we can make wicked into good, then we must question our faith or abandon common sense.


The story tells us that God can ask people to kill the innocent. When we make this point, somebody somewhere will ask whether Isaac was innocent, and then justify his attempted murder by alleging some wicked deed was done by the boy.

The simple elements are these: God: Kill your son. Abraham: O.K.

I used to be an avid watcher of the Atheist Experience, a Youtube show run by Matt Dillahunty. One memorable episode involves a Christian calling in to discuss the topic of morality, making the claim that his compass for morality is broken, so it makes sense (in his mind) to rely on God's.
Some back and forth between him and the hosts ensues, and eventually one of the hosts, Tracy Harris, asks whether its moral for God to allow a rapist to rape a little girl. One of the responses of the Christian? That the little girl deserved it, that she was evil.

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

Go to 13 mins, 30 secs for the relevant point.

It's always struck me as weird as to how some Christians (including myself back in the day) were so quick to assume evil of humans...but never allow it as a possibility for their God.

[marco]

It's always struck me as weird as to how some Christians (including myself back in the day) were so quick to assume evil of humans...but never allow it as a possibility for their God.

Yes, this is relevant to God telling Abraham to commit murder. I read about a little Ukrainian girl whose parents were murdered and she ran upstairs to escape from the killer. He found her praying and said he smashed her skull. I asked on a forum why God had not asnwered her prayers and was told: "She probably said the wrong prayer."


Chilling. Like the advice to kill children in the Cathar crusade: "God will know his own."

[Zog Has-fallen]

[Replying to post 51 by marco]
All fallen beings are dependent on the mercies of God. Their death means little since God can easily resurrect whomever He chooses.

[marco]

[Replying to post 51 by marco]
All fallen beings are dependent on the mercies of God. Their death means little since God can easily resurrect whomever He chooses.

Well I suppose this is a consistent line of arguing. The pain of a little child, the agony of son about to be murdered by his dad are of no concern to a God who can flick a switch. That would explain why he felt it acceptable to give Job a nice new set of children, as if that would make up for those lost in the divine game.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 12 by JehovahsWitness]

I always find it best not to tell people what their position on any given subject is in favor of asking them;

Generally speaking, I agree with you JW...thing is, look at what is being asked, being discussed. Do you REALLY have to be asked if it is right for God to order people to kill is right (or for people to carry out killing commands they believe have been God-ordered)?

Of course the alternative is to employ your mind reading capacities or presume to guess, but if you want to know rather than just believe in your heart that you already know.... you will indeed need to ask.

Why is it we can't just assume one would be against such things?

Because everybody has different standards, people have different morals, worldviews, based on different beliefs. People can look at the same situation in radically different ways, especially when it comes to matters of faith.

Do we really have to ask if you think it is all right to hit old ladies with baseball bats, or can we just assume it?

You may indeed assume, but if you want to be sure you will have to ask.

If we don't assume on questions like this...then you're opening yourself up to the possibility of "JW believes it is right to hit old ladies with baseball bats".

That is correct. Of course, to be sure....you'd have to ask. Since its a fairly serious accusation I would certainly recommend caution.

JW

[Zog Has-fallen]

[Replying to post 51 by marco]
All fallen beings are dependent on the mercies of God. Their death means little since God can easily resurrect whomever He chooses.

Well I suppose this is a consistent line of arguing. The pain of a little child, the agony of son about to be murdered by his dad are of no concern to a God who can flick a switch.

I strongly believe that God will be making up more than adequately for the consequences of the sins of Adam and Eve and their progeny in the coming Restoration. But don't forget about God's suffering in having to give up His own Son to make all that possible. That's the true meaning of Abraham being willing to sacrifice his own son.

[For_The_Kingdom]

In modern times we have people telling us that their God told them to kill. We think this absurd. But God told Abraham to murder Isaac. It doesn't matter what the outcome was, we have a precedent for God telling a human to murder another human and not, apparently, because the boy deserved to die, as did the suckling infants in another tale.

Is the command correct just because it is God's?

Was Abraham right in agreeing to commit murder?

Cmon now, marco. As familiar you are with Christian theology, I am sure you know that anytime God gives a command, it is morally justified.

So why ask the question?