The Garden

[achilles12604]

What do you think the Garden for Adam and Eve would have looked like (assume it a litteral here)?

Could our intended state according to Christianity be one of ignorant bliss? After all Adam and Eve could run around naked and not even think about it, they had no knowledge of good and evil and they had never sinned. This sounds like my 3 year old daughter.

Could this be the type of state Jesus means when he teaches we must be like little children if we are to inherit heaven?

Last one - Do you think that this is what heaven might be like?

[bernee51]

bernee51,

I was hoping you could give a more detailed explanation for your basis that there is no need for an "atonement".

The fact that there is nothign for which to atone and nothing to atone to (except perhaps the Self) seems to be pretty self explanatory I would think.

Assuming that you are a christian, your response appears somewhat puzzeling.

Knowing that I am not should make it less puzzling.

If one were to accept your doctrine, then there would be no need for Christ.

There is no need for a Christ.

[Greatest I Am]

Any good Christian would recognize that the Christ has already done His job. If all sins are already forgiven by the sacrifice of Jesus then the only atonement left is any cleansing that will happen at the gates of Heaven on the way in.

Regards
DL

[Revelations won]

Dear DL,

Well spoken! But we should never forget that Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Elijah, Daniel, Christ and others also walked that lonely road before us, so I guess it comes with the territory.

I think it is a veritable truism that all who search deeply and seek deep understanding from the Lord inevitably find themselves on that "lonely road".

Thanks for your response.

[Greatest I Am]

Dear DL,

Well spoken! But we should never forget that Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Elijah, Daniel, Christ and others also walked that lonely road before us, so I guess it comes with the territory.

I think it is a veritable truism that all who search deeply and seek deep understanding from the Lord inevitably find themselves on that "lonely road".

Thanks for your response.

You are welcome.

regards
DL

[Cathar1950]

Dear DL,

Well spoken! But we should never forget that Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Elijah, Daniel, Christ and others also walked that lonely road before us, so I guess it comes with the territory.

I think it is a veritable truism that all who search deeply and seek deep understanding from the Lord inevitably find themselves on that "lonely road".

Thanks for your response.

You are welcome.

regards
DL

You might try reading Scott Peck's "the Road Less Traveled".
I did notice out of the 7 "lonely" travelers at least 4 were fictional and little is said about them.

[Desert_Rose2]

What do you think the Garden for Adam and Eve would have looked like (assume it a litteral here)?

I don't know, but perfection in plants, and tame animals can be backed up from scripture.

Could our intended state according to Christianity be one of ignorant bliss?

depends what you mean by the word 'ignorant.'
'Innocence' might fit.

After all Adam and Eve could run around naked and not even think about it, they had no knowledge of good and evil and they had never sinned. This sounds like my 3 year old daughter.

yes, similar.

Could this be the type of state Jesus means when he teaches we must be like little children if we are to inherit heaven?

similar I think...trusting - free.

Last one - Do you think that this is what heaven might be like?

yes, I believe that is what 'heaven' is.
The earth transformed back to, (and better than), the original 'Garden.'
God dwelling with 'Man' again, as the presence of sin will be fully removed.

[Greatest I Am]

If God did not want us to learn of evil then He would not have given this gift to us.
To reject it for ignorance or innocence would be wrong.

Since we are the same people that escaped the garden of ignorance 2,000yrs ago, we can say that we are doing exactly what God wants or He would end a fruitless exercise.

To experience the garden without knowledge of good and evil, just try to think of any issue or topic that could be discussed or done that does not include an aspect of good and evil.

There is nothing that you can think of that does not have these aspects. That being the case then you see that being that stupid would not serve us or God very well.
We would be following a God without having a clue as to why we follow.
Not what God wants obviously because that is not what He is producing.

You are falling into the trap that says that God is a failure.
To think that He started us up the wrong way is wrong.
God cannot help but start us up the right way.
To think otherwise makes God a bungler of creation.

All about us is Perfection. It is to us to recognize the power that God has to retain His initial Perfect condition and the initial Perfection of His universe.
If He were to lose this Perfection then we could say that He is backsliding.
He does not.

Regards
DL

[OnceConvinced]

It was no doubt beautiful there with the tree of life but God always meant for man to seek knowledge and wisdom, thus the tree of good and evil. Not really a tree, right, just the idea of good and evil thoughts and actions, right.

Absolutely. God is all-knowing, he knows everything that is to happen, therefore he knew that Eve would eat from the tree before he planted it there. You might say it was a case of divine entrapment.

[Revelations won]

Yeah right! Let's see this sounds pretty interesting. So are you saying when we get to heaven it will be a multi billion member Christian nudist colony??? (

Do you claim that God intended Adam and Eve to remain in the garden?

If you claim that God intended for them to remain in the Garden of Eden, then they would have lived forever in the garden.

If this is the position you take, then you raise three major theological issues.

1. The concept of eternal marriage.

2, If no one partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge then no one could ever get to heaven, for all would remain in the garden.

3. All Christians should be ignorant and have no knowledge of "good and evil".

Please expound on the above to doctrines which you introduce by claiming that they should not have eaten of the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

[ken1burton]

Would have looked like, or did look like? Place the Garden where it belongs. The day of the Cross. The day made as seven days in Isaiah 30:26. Only the day of the cross will fit this prophecy when God heals.

God takes the day and makes it as 3 pictures, first as 4 6-hour periods, Like a River divided into four heads. “Let tears run down like a river.” The day is all the Sevens in the Book of Revelation, The Lamb has seven eyes,

So God wipes away all the tears from their eyes, Then God makes all things new, or shows the Second picture as 2 12-hour periods seeing Jesus in hell, or a pit where in is no water. Then the third picture, Jesus comes as the Rain, and there are streams in the Desert.

The Fourth river in the Garden is the river Euphrates. So the River Euphrates is seen dried up to prepare for the Kings from the east. When Jesus died, The Body of Christ was born, we were made Kings and Priests because He is King and Priest, But those in hell are also as Kings.

Ezekiel 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.

Now in this second picture, Eden is likened to being in the nether parts of the Earth.

So Eden is seen in all three pictures, So the day as 7 days, the Fourth is noon to sunset, When Jesus died on the Cross, So in the Midst is the Tree of Life, and the Tree of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.

Do you really want to take a bite? If you are a fruit inspector (By their fruits you shall know them.) I would suggest you do.

Jesus had to take future sins as His own, Past and present sins ended “With His stripes, we are healed.” But in order to fulfill Scripture He needs to die a sinner, That is the only way you get the keys to death and hell. So the only sins there are, are future sins (While we were yet sinners, or still Humans, Christ died for us.)

So Jesus had to make the Tree Evil, die a sinner, Get into hell, and get them all out, (Seen as bearing evil fruit)

Zechariah 9:11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

Second generation is Jewish Nation is Able, Offers the Lamb, Cain or Jesus slays His brother. When Jesus said “No man cometh unto the Father, But by Me.” They were spiritually dead, God had blinded them from seeing Jesus is the Christ.

Mark the Perfect man. The Seventh Generation is Enoch, God takes Him, or God takes Jesus when the day if fulfilled.

God has everything under control, This is just a glimpse into the Garden. One of the things from ancient times not yet done.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

You can also move the Creation story to the day as 7 days.

Sunset to midnight, “Let there be light”. I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, In My Father’s House are many Mansions, I go to prepare a place for you, on and on as Jesus pours out the Light.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

IN THE DAY

Ken