This generation shall not pass until

[Checkpoint]

This issue has been discussed over the centuries, and resulted in no agreed answer. Instead at least four possibilities have been proposed. These are:

#1. The generation alive at the time He spoke.
#2. The generation living when He returns.
#3. The nation of Israel, or the Jews as a race.
#4. A particular kind of people.

What is your view on this, and why do you hold it?

[postroad]

This author had Jesus himself uttering these words.


Revelation 3:11

I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.



Revelation 22:7

“Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.�


Revelation 22:12

[ Epilogue: Invitation and Warning ] “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.



Revelation 22:20

He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.� Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.



Some context regarding "soon"

Revelation 22:10-11New International Version (NIV)

10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.�


Sounds like a command to halt further witnessing to the world.

I am sure the Jewish readers would have recognised it as such.



Daniel 12:4

But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.�



Daniel 12:9

He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 38 by Black Sheep]

You said this:

"I could continue on and turn this into long drawn out thing with a mountain of evidence to debunk the other ideas about 'this generation', but can tell it would be futile".

It appears that "the other ideas" you refer to come from "Preterism and Historicism". On this issue, those ideas assume, as yours seem to, that the Greek word 'genea' translated 'generation' has only one meaning or usage, that of a generation in a genealogy, a period of less than a century.

If that were the case, my original starter post would have listed #1 and #2 only. I included #3 and #4 because 'generation' may have been used by Jesus in this passage in its wider sense of 'family', a whole genealogy that stems from its first father.

In that respect, this expertise may interest you:


http://blogs.blueletterbible.org/blb/2012/08/22/3956/

[Black Sheep]

[Replying to post 42 by Checkpoint]

the Greek word 'genea' translated 'generation' has only one meaning or usage, that of a generation in a genealogy, a period of less than a century.

Yes. And that again supports the idea that the generation that sees all of the events Jesus covered between verse 2 and 30 something, IS the generation he is talking about.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 43 by Black Sheep]

The first half of your post was this partial quote of what I wrote: .....

Quote:
the Greek word 'genea' translated 'generation' has only one meaning or usage, that of a generation in a genealogy, a period of less than a century.

.....as if that was a statement of fact, when it wasn't written by me to imply that but to say otherwise in its full context, as anyone can see.

The second half of your post was this:

[center]"Yes. And that again supports the idea that the generation that sees all of the events Jesus covered between verse 2 and 30 something, IS the generation he is talking about".[/center]

There are many ideas about many things. Ideas are opinions and may be true or untrue.

When Jesus said "this generation" he was talking about a generation that then existed, and would still exist, until all He spoke of had taken place.

He is not talking about a coming generation only, or about a past generation only, but about one that was there at the time that "will not pass away until".

[Black Sheep]

[Replying to Checkpoint]

In my view that would be impossible. Impossible because Jesus' reply was in response to THIS,

1. WHEN will these things be. (not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.)
2. WHAT will be the sign of thy coming.
3. WHAT will be the sign of the end of the world.

The bible can make Hitler look like a saint if people disregard the grammar, the context, and the correct definition of the words. The questions the disciples asked above, and the grammar, makes the entirety context of Jesus' response, the antecedent to the word 'generation.

Jesus was responding to the questions the disciples asked, TO the generation in front of him, about a coming generation that would see and endure all the things Jesus mentions between verses 3 and the end of the chapter.

1. There is still "one stone left here upon another."

2. The tribulation hasn't passed, and Lord DID NOT returned in the generation of Jesus time, neither has any of the events that he mentioned taken place. If you think those events have taken place, you would have about 0 evidence that they did!

3. The end of the world is better understood as the consummation of the age, just prior to WHEN Jesus returns.

"When Jesus said "this generation" he was talking about a generation that then existed, and would still exist, until all He spoke of had taken place."

The context of the chapter says otherwise. If what Jesus said between verse 3-33 was intended for the generation living at the time then Jesus would likely NOT USED the word which Thayers says, "Is the whole multitude of men living at the same time."

That definition alone debunks what you're trying to say. Emphasis is mine. This is the word genea...

fathered, birth, nativity
that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
the whole multitude of men living at the same time
an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

SO! According to the correct definition of the word 'generation', the only correct interpretation I see possible of a 30-33 year generation, that makes any senses, is the one that the grammar and context supports. And that would be the GENERATION that sees all of the things Jesus mentions Pass! It really isn't that difficult to figure out.

My disappointment with most Christians is that they continue to believe what they want regardless of anything! Christians just DON'T change their minds! After all, if they did, they would first have to admit they made a mistake. And the words, "I made a mistake," or "I was wrong," just doesn't exist in a Christian's vocabulary.

Matthew 24:33-36  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The word 'likewise' is...

Even (Adverb, Etc.), Even As, Even So:
a conjunction, is usually a mere connective, meaning "and;" it frequently, however, has an ascensive or climactic use, signifying "even," the thing that is added being out of the ordinary, and producing a climax. The determination of this meaning depends on the context

Want me to walk you through it???

The only way the passage could refer to the generation Jesus is TALKING TO, would be for the disciples to pose the question differently, and Mathew to describe the discourse differently, use different words than he did in the question about the end of the world. (better understood as "the consummation of the age.) And different words in Jesus' response.

I can walk you through the three different words for world and end used in the chapter, which WOULD change it's meaning somewhat, but I doubt it would change your mind.

There's no figuring out bible prophecy without some willingness to search and speculate with an open mind and change your mind when the evidence is there to do so. God has more trouble enlightening someone who believes they have these things already figured out.

[postroad]

This author had Jesus himself uttering these words.


Revelation 3:11

I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.



Revelation 22:7

“Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.�


Revelation 22:12

[ Epilogue: Invitation and Warning ] “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.



Revelation 22:20

He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.� Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.



Some context regarding "soon"

Revelation 22:10-11New International Version (NIV)

10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.�


Sounds like a command to halt further witnessing to the world.

I am sure the Jewish readers would have recognised it as such.



Daniel 12:4

But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.�



Daniel 12:9

He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.

Where these words not meant for the original readers to be understood as pertaining to themselves?

[Black Sheep]

[Replying to post 45 by Black Sheep]

These stones have yet to fall...

[postroad]

[Replying to post 45 by Black Sheep]

These stones have yet to fall...

I believe that those stones belong to the retaining wall at the Temple mount and not the Temple itself. Also if you look closely much of it has been rebuilt at later dates.

If one insist that all these stones must fall then a huge excavation around the mount would need to happen as the wall extends 17 courses of the large blocks underneath ground level.

[Black Sheep]

[Replying to post 48 by postroad]

I believe that those stones belong to the retaining wall at the Temple mount and not the Temple itself. Also if you look closely much of it has been rebuilt at later dates.

If one insist that all these stones must fall then a huge excavation around the mount would need to happen as the wall extends 17 courses of the large blocks underneath ground level.

The stones beneath ground level don't need to fall because they can't!

Pay attention to what Jesus said,

"Matthew 24:2  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

ALL THESE THINGS included the stones of the Western Wall.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 48 by postroad]

I believe that those stones belong to the retaining wall at the Temple mount and not the Temple itself. Also if you look closely much of it has been rebuilt at later dates.

If one insist that all these stones must fall then a huge excavation around the mount would need to happen as the wall extends 17 courses of the large blocks underneath ground level.

The stones beneath ground level don't need to fall because they can't!

Pay attention to what Jesus said,

"Matthew 24:2  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

ALL THESE THINGS included the stones of the Western Wall.

Why not include verse one which indicates the buildings only.

Matthew 24:1-2New International Version (NIV)

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times

24 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?� he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.�

Further

Mark 13:1-2New International Version (NIV)

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times

13 As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!�

2 “Do you see all these great buildings?� replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.�

A better test to use for your position is the following which indicates that all of Jerusalem's walls must be leveled to the ground first. I am not even sure if the Romans completely destroyed the city walls or not? Or maybe it means every building in the city must be leveled? In which case a nuclear blast must be in Israel's future?

Luke 19:41-44New International Version (NIV)

41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.�

The language is still awkward because Jesus is still referencing those first century individuals.

In any case If they failed to be convinced it must have been Gods plan all along.