JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

[Falling Light 101]

.

Lastly I would like to conclude ..

In mainstream  Catholic  Trinitarianism   -   God the Father is regarded as the first person  of the Trinity, followed by the  second person  God the Son (Yahoshuah Christ) and the   third person   God the Holy Spirit.

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from trinus, "threefold") holds that God is three consubstantial persons or hypostases—the Father, the Son (Yahoshuah Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God
in three Divine Persons".
   Your one step theology plan
is not proving that I am incorrect.


The false doctrine of The Trinity is a lie and perversity of theology because it is denies the deity of the God Of Abraham - The God Of The Bible}  -  The Creator.  Himself.
       The Bible clearly is consistent, unwavering, and very clear to eXplain that God is ONE.
He is not Three People, Persons, Beings, or Three Deities as the Trinitarian demands.   
The very Baptism that is Commanded in the Bible, is that the Believer is to be baptized in the  NAME.
NAME  OF  THE  FATHER  and  OF  THE  SON  and  OF HOLY  SPIRIT. 
The simple, basic most important question to ask the Trinitarians is  -  “ What are the NAMES of these THREE distinct PERSONS  ?
What are the Names  of The Father, of the Son, and of the Spirit   ?     The Trinitarian demands that the FATHER, SON and SPIRIT are three distinct, separate, individual Persons and or people.
But here we see that the Trinitarian is selling You a contradiction and an outright lie.
Because The Trinitarian cannot and will not and does not know or seek to know the three Name’s of the three distinct, separate, individual Persons.   If They are indeed Three people / persons, What are their three names?
The Bible clearly tells us that the Three manifestations OF God  - are not Three.  Are never Three and always are  -  ONE.
 1Jn 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:  and these three are one.
The Trinitarian does not know or even care to think about

what are the Three Separate Names of The Father, Son and Spirit,   -  THE  Three distinct Persons   ?  
​If They are 3 distinct PERSONS -  What are their Names....   Obviously, the Trinitarian has a Biblical and a grammar problem.

  demanding that the Godhead is composed and made up of  Three Separate Distinct Persons.
The baptism  - details a clear answer – as the apostles demonstrated the baptism in action. The apostles engaged in doing the very command that The Lord Yahoshuah commanded.
The Apostles went about performing Baptism in The Name Of The Lord Yahoshua Christ. Every single time, every single method and mode of performing this commandment, it was the same eXact way every single time.
Just notice what the Bible says about this Commandment.
“�’’   Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be Baptized every one of you in the name of   Yahoshuah Christ,  For the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost …… Acts 2:38
Every single time baptism was performed, the same eXact way.
 GA 3:27...... For as many of you as have been BAPTIZED into Christ have put on Christ.
CO 1:13...... Is Christ divided? .. was Paul crucified for you? or were ye BAPTIZED in the name of Paul?
Here Paul is commanding to baptize  DIRECTLY  .....in Yahoshuahs NAME.... clearly.
RO 6:3...... Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED into Yaahoshuah Christ were BAPTIZED into his death?
AC 19:5 ...... When they heard this, they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Yahoshuah Christ.
AC 10:48...... and he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord…  
AC 8:16...... (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were.. BAPTIZED in the name of the Yahoshuah Christ.)
AC 8:12...... But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and in the name of Yahoshuah Christ, they were BAPTIZED.
Acts 19:3-5 ......"They were baptized unto Johns baptism. } Paul, SAID YOU are to BELIEVE ON CHRIST Yaahoshuah... ... When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Yahoshuah ."
Luk 24:47 Repentance and remission of sins should be preached in HIS NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: For there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."  { Yaahoshuah Name is the only name.
We all know and have been through the many, many verses that eXplains that Yahoshuah was The Father, Creator manifested in The flesh who took on the morph, form, role and manifestation of a Man / Son.  
And The Bible never suggests  that God is three separate persons.  
AND   NEVER  USES  THE  WORD  OR  IDEA  OF  PERSONS,  PEOPLES -      The deity, person, Lord, Father, Son and Spirit are 1
Not Three.
 
 If You will notice  in the Bible,  There is not a Holy  three  or [ a  holy  # 1, 2 and 3 
 
- or  a holy  trio   or   [ a  holy tri ] or a TRIANGLE or a Trinity  or a Threesome or a TRIAD.
 
The Trinitarian Does Not, Cannot and Will Not ever know or tell You the names of these Three imaginary persons or deities in His Trinity theology.
It is a Romantic Catholic Created Doctrine, invented by Rome and Roman Catholic Dictators and not a part of The teaching of The God Of The Bible.
 Here is more proof.  AND  MORE    _  FACTS.   Something  -  that Roman Catholic  TRINITARDS simply ignore.
 
Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (1951). II, 384, 389: "The formula used was "in the name of the Lord Yaahoshuah Christ".......there is no evidence for the use of the trine name The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion in water
 
Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (1962), I 351: "The evidence suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, but 'in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Yaahoshuah.'"
 
Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (1965), I, 53: "At first baptism was administered in the name of  Yaahoshuah, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
 
Hastings’s Dictionary of the Bible (1898). I, 241: "[One explanation is that] the original form of words was "into the name of Yaahoshuah Christ" or 'the Lord Yaahoshuah,' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development."
 
Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church (1947), page 58: "The Trinitarian baptismal formula,,, was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ."
 
The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1957), I, 435: "The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Yaahoshuah which still occurs even in the second and third centuries."
 
Canney's Encyclopedia of Religions (1970), page 53: "Persons were baptized at first 'in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ'  or 'in the name of the Lord Yaahoshuah' Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized 'in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.'"
 
Encyclopedia Biblical (1899), I, 473: "It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times 'in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ,' or in that 'of the Lord Yaahoshuah.' This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single-not triple, as was the later creed."
 
Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. (1920), II 365: "The Trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the New Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid."
 
FAUSSETS BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA, page 359 - Yaahoshuah. Means Jehovah Salvation. "Peter replied, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ for the remission of ...the authenticity of water baptism today in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ, cannot be denied!
 
New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967 Edition, Vol.13, p.1021 - The first use of the Latin word "trinitas" (trinity) with reference to God, is found in Tertullian’s writings (about 213 A.D.) He was the first to use the term "persons" (plural) in a Trinitarian context.
 World Book Encyclopedia, 1975 Edition, Vol. T, p.363 - Belief in Father, Son and Holy Ghost was first defined by the earliest general council of churches. This was the First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.
 
"The doctrine of the Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament" (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. XIV, p. 306). 
The Trinity "is not directly and immediately the Word of God" (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. XIV, p. 304

The dogma of the Trinity in the stricter sense of the word was a late arrival, product of 3 centuries' .............. Trinitarians-went back to the period of Christian origins. (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1965, Trinity, p299-300)
 
NEW INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol 22, Pg 477.  The term Trinity was originated by Tertullian, a Roman Catholic Church Father.
 
We can ask the Roman Catholic Trinitarian – “ What are The Names Of The three persons of The Trinity  ?
The Roman Catholic can never tell You. Because He denies that Yashoshua The Lord Christ is the very eXact Name of The Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit.    There is only One name.
Father is not a name – Son is not a name –  and Spirit is not a name.   The Names of the Three Separate Persons / People Of The Catholic Trinity are not known to the Trinitarian, because The Three Persons are not Three.
They are 1.  Not three. But  One Person  One Deity ,  One God,  ONE SPIRIT,  ONE  LORD.

​TRINITARDS  HAVE  3  Husbands,  three daddies and 3 LORDS.    basically a pagan Catholic Perversion
One Name, One God.  There is no Triangle or Trio.     The Lord Yashoshua Christ is the Only Name Of God
Yawhea is completed, accomplished  and fulfilled -  in the Name of Yahoshuah.  This is The Lords Name.  

​There is no other Name.    Where by, We are Saved.  Father Son and Spirit are Not Names.
​This is why Baptism was ALWAYS performed in  The Name Of The  LORD, YAAHOSHUA, THE ANOINTED.
​Every single time.   Your Catholic made Baptism, denies Yaahosua. 
.

[brianbbs67]

I agree with a lot of what you wrote regarding the Triune God. But, you insert Yehoshau in text where it isn't. Yes, that could be His name. Yeshau also(Joshua). I believe 3 are mentioned , No evidence they are one(other than in mission). In other words , God the father, God's Son, and God's spirit. So 3 works for me. Here's the thing I see nearly everyone miss. Consubstantial means made from the same stuff. Does not mean equal. "ye are gods" comes to mind.

[Falling Light 101]

[font=Courier New]The reason they crucified and tortured and brutalized and killed Yaashoshua as a criminal was because He literally claimed to be the CREATOR / God.
{ The Father }

The jEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS were not angry with Yaahoshua because He claimed to be ONE in UNITY with the Creator and Father.

But He was making Claims - Demands, Commanding and Dictating - DEBATING and getting into peoples Business = Entering into The Temples and Meetings.

He was demanding that they Believe upon Him for Salvation, Eternal Life as God Himself.


Yaahoshua was arguing with religious people and accusing them of being Evil SNAKES and VIPERS from Their Evil Father - The Devil.

He literally claimed to be the CREATOR / God. _ THE FATHER>. .. ........

He claimed To have eXisted literally as God Himself - Long BEFORE Abraham eXisted as { The Father }

Yaahoshua was Telling The Disciples, " why ! - WHY ARE YOU ASKING THIS REDICULIOUS QUESTION ? ?

Why do You still ask me to show You The Father ? - If You are Looking at me - You are Seeing THE FATHER.

The Father And ME ARE 1. A primary Numeral ONE....1.
This Greek word is not Mia / Mia means unity

But HICE in Greek - This It is the Greek word Hice = meaning a primary numeral one. ONLY ONE AND NO MORE.

The Apostles went around telling people that Yaahoshua was the one who created the world and created everything that eXists everywhere.

There was no simple claim to be in UNITY in thought and principle and UNITY in a plan and goal with The Father - Yaahoshua claimed Literally to be the Very Father. He Claimed to have the POWER and PLACE of God Himself, ------

With HIMSELF SITTING DIRECTLY UPON THE FATHTERS THRONE. . . .
___________----------------============------------------_____________
This is because Yaahoshua is the eXpressed IMAGE of the SPIRIT OF THE FATHER
THE FATHER IS THE HOLY SPIRIT THE CREATOR a Creating Spirit.

God made flesh.
.[/font]

[Falling Light 101]

.
Yaahoshua Prayed directly to Himself as He was eXisting BOTH In heaven and On Earth BOTH at the same eXact time.

Yaahoshua said in John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, Unless / SAVE HE that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man BEING in heaven.

This Greek word BEING In Heaven. BEING is the Greek word G5607
ὠ�ν, οὖσα, ὀ�ν / ōn ousa on / oan, oo'-sah, on

Which Literally means a present and PAST participle.

This Word BEING is a Past and Present TENSE WORD and is used in hundreds of verses such as the following.

Mar 5:25 And G2532 a certain G5100 woman, G1135 which had G5607 an (G1722) issue G4511 of blood G129.


This WORD WHICH HAD - is the Greek word ὠ�ν, οὖσα, ὀ�ν / ōn ousa on / oan, oo'-sah, on and it is the eXplaination word that eXpresses Yaahoshua HAD Been IN HEAVEN and IS CURRENTLY PRESENTLY IN HEAVEN. While he was on earth. he was praying to himself because He The Father.

Yaahoshua was Declaring that he - IS, Was and Has Been in Heaven. And was in heaven at that very moment.

Thats Why we are to PRAY to Yaahoshua and Believe, Worship and Serve Yaahoshua - Because He is God The Father. God does not share His Glory with another person.

The Bible shows God REPENTING TO HIMSELF. HE Repents, Prays and Worships and Serves Himself



We see - What the Spirit of God Looks like - Through The Eyes John. In a Vision.

The Basic Greek Manuscripts READ eXactly as FOLLOWS. Basic GREEK MANUSCRIPTS …
The Holy Spirit - Residing UPON His Throne. Here in - Rev 4:2.

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven,

and sitting on the throne.

Rev 4:3 And sitting, a - G3706 vision - appearing as jasper and as sardine stone:

and there was a rainbow round about the throne, a - G3706 vision - appearing emerald.

This is How The GREEK MANUSCRIPTS READ. The Rest is Added by the Translators.
It is Ok To add Stuff to help People Understand. But the King James Translators Lie and Mistranslate to Alter and Change the Word Of God.
Lets Notice ANOTHER Mistake - The King James Translators make.

Rev 5:7 AndG2532 he cameG2064 andG2532 tookG2983 theG3588 bookG975 out ofG1537 theG3588 right hand G1188 of him that satG2521 uponG1909 theG3588 throne.G2362

The King James Translation is incorrect.

All the Manuscripts are saying here in Rev 5:7 is simply that
THE LAMB - cameG2064 andG2532 tookG2983 theG3588 bookG975 FROM G1537 theG3588 right side G1188 of that G2521 uponG1909 theG3588 throne.G2362 .

We know - The Holy Spirit is THAT - Which is - THAT DWELLING, RESIDING - UPON The Throne.
The Holy Spirit Has no Hands, No Feet, No Rear End - To Sit, No Mouth and no Body. He is SPIRIT>/.. Invisible. Immortal, Light.
Christ, / The Lamb is the Physical Manifestation of that Holy SPIRIT. The Lamb Takes the Book that is - PRESENT - there at the RIGHT SIDE of the Throne . Not in the Hand of the Spirit on the Throne. There is no HAND - in the Verse.
There is NO right hand of Gods Spirit in the VERSE. The Translators Lied.
the RIGHT SIDE of the Throne is where Christ also is. That is HIS POSITION of POWER> That is Why Only HE = Is able to OPEN the Book that sits - THE BOOK is Sitting at the RIGHT SIDE of the THRONE
Christ is Also sitting at the RIGHT side of the POWER of the Spirit. He is the WORD of God.

And the Greek Word for A Hand Or Hands - is GREEK 5495 χει�� Cheir / Khire.
The hand. A Hand Or Hands.
And the Greek Word for Right Side. is GREEK 1188 δεξιο�ς , Dexios, Dex-ee-os' The Right. Right.
REMEMBER
Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιο�ς
Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χει��
Rev 20:1 AndG2532 I sawG1492 an angelG32 come downG2597 fromG1537 heaven,G3772 havingG2192 theG3588 keyG2807 of theG3588 bottomless pitG12 andG2532 a greatG3173 chainG254 inG1909 hisG848 hand. Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χει��
Notice the Manuscripts always tell You when it is the - RIGHT HAND. They always Put the Two Greek Words Together. Here the Greek Word ( RIGHT ) - Is not in the Manuscripts. Just the Word hand is mentioned in - Rev 20:1.


Here we see the Usage of
right Greek 1188 /
and hand Greek 5495 - Used in the manuscripts.
Rev 1:16 AndG2532 he hadG2192 inG1722 hisG848 Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιο�ς …. Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χει�� …… sevenG2033 stars:G792
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Rev 1:17 AndG2532 whenG3753 I sawG1492 him,G846 I fellG4098 atG4314 hisG848 feetG4228 asG5613 dead.G3498 AndG2532 he laidG2007 hisG848 Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιο�ς …. Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χει�� …….uponG1909 me,G1691 ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Rev 13:16 AndG2532 he causethG4160 all,G3956 both smallG3398 andG2532 great,G3173(G2532) richG4145 andG2532 poor,G4434 (G2532) freeG1658 andG2532 bond,G1401 toG2443 receiveG1325 G846 a markG5480 inG1909 theirG848 Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιο�ς …. Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χει��
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
The Authors of the Scriptures TELL YOU Clearly that it is the RIGHT HAND. They always USE the Two GREEK WORDS> Right = Dexios and Hand = Cheir
Ok - Lets notice the Authors use Right and Foot - together.
Rev 10:2 AndG2532 he hadG2192 inG1722 hisG848 handG5495 a little bookG974 open:G455 andG2532 he setG5087 hisG848 Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιο�ς / GREEK 4228 που�ς pous pooce A “foot …… uponG1909 theG3588 sea,G2281

You see… This Word that the TRANSLATORS are CLAIMING is the Word for RIGHT HAND OF POWER
and IN THE RIGHT HAND OF THE SPIRIT ON THE THRONE. is SUDDENLY Referring to - The RIGHT FOOT.
and here
The RIGHT EYE. Mat 5:29 AndG1161 ifG1487 thyG4675 right G1188 eye G3788 offendG4624 thee,G4571
Mat 5:39 whosoeverG3748 shall smiteG4474 theeG4571 onG1909 thyG4675 right G1188 cheek,G4600

This Greek Word - Right = Dexios - Has nothing to do with the Hand.

Rev 1:16 AndG2532 he hadG2192 inG1722 hisG848 Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιο�ς …. Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χει��……… sevenG2033 stars:G792
The Manuscripts always tell You it is the Right Hand.
Mat 5:39 whosoeverG3748 shall smiteG4474 theeG4571 onG1909 thyG4675 right Right = Dexios - cheek,G4600

again - nothing to do with a Hand . The Translators go through The Bible Adding many things that are not there in the Original Greek And Hebrew.
The English KING JAMES BIBLE VERSON - Has Solidified the ENGLISH Language Gave us the TERM Right of Power. This is Christ.
The Term Right Hand of Power does not eXist in the Manuscripts. Christ is the Rightful Receiver of all Power and Glory of God. The Translators Simply wanted to follow a Catholic DOGMA and attribute the Holy Spirit as a Separate Person of the Trinity - With a Hand and separate body parts .
When in Fact Christ is the ARM of the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 53:1 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
John 12:38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?" Christ is the Arm, The Voice, The Hand and the Blood and eXpressed Image - of the Invisible Spirit of God. God - The Spirit - Made Flesh.

[JehovahsWitness]

.
Yaahoshua Prayed directly to Himself as He was eXisting BOTH In heaven and On Earth BOTH at the same eXact time.

This is not only illogical it contradicts scripture since Jesus said he prayed not not himself but to The Father. Since The Father (YHWH) and the Son (the word) are not the same person he obviously was not praying to himself. Further the bible says Jesus came to earth, there is no mention of him (Jesus) staying in heaven while he was simultaneously on earth. There is nothing in the bible to indicate Jesus is omnipresent (meaning everywhere at the same time)

[marco]

This is not only illogical it contradicts scripture since Jesus said he prayed not not himself but to The Father.

There is nothing logical abour resurrection and ascension, so apparent illogicality rules nothing out. You should know that what appears wisdom to us is foolishness with God.
Jesus did NOT say "I pray not to myself." He commended a format for prayer: Our Father and this does not in any way dismiss the argument that Jesus was possessed of a human and a divien nature; as human, he could refer to the Father.

The Bible does NOT tell us everything about Jesus. Some thirty years out of a possible thirty three are missing, so we all make deductions when we are uncertain.

Further the bible says Jesus came to earth, there is no mention of him (Jesus) staying in heaven while he was simultaneously on earth. There is nothing in the bible to indicate Jesus is omnipresent (meaning everywhere at the same time)

God is said to be omnipresent. The human part of Jesus, produced at the Incarnation, is obviously not omnipresent; nobody's arguing that. In the NT Jesus acts as a human being. That is his human nature.

For those who wish to argue Jesus and Yahweh are one God, you have done nothing to refute them.

It could be argued that Jesus is the kinder face of Jehovah. He is the way, the truth and the life. That is a pretty powerful claim.

[liamconnor]

.
Yaahoshua Prayed directly to Himself as He was eXisting BOTH In heaven and On Earth BOTH at the same eXact time.

This is not only illogical it contradicts scripture since Jesus said he prayed not not himself but to The Father. Since The Father (YHWH) and the Son (the word) are not the same person he obviously was not praying to himself. Further the bible says Jesus came to earth, there is no mention of him (Jesus) staying in heaven while he was simultaneously on earth. There is nothing in the bible to indicate Jesus is omnipresent (meaning everywhere at the same time)

It has been explained again and again that YHWH is not a name exclusive to The Father. No where in the N.T. do we read the name YHWH as a predicate of The Father. Thus this argument completely fails. We do, however, have good exegetical reasons to believe the earliest Christians attached the name YHWH to Christ.

Jesus did not "come to earth"; Jesus is the incarnate 2nd P of the Trinity. The Word, according to John's gospel, became flesh (i.e. Jesus), while remaining in heaven.

The arguments you have launched have been answered since the 2nd c.; are you not aware of them?

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 355 by marco]

JehovahsWitness wrote:



This is not only illogical it contradicts scripture since Jesus said he prayed not not himself but to The Father.

There is nothing logical abour resurrection and ascension, so apparent illogicality rules nothing out.

Though I do not agree J.W., he has kept closer to the definition of "illogical" than you have. There is nothing illogical about Jesus' resurrection or ascension; unlikely, implausible, unprecedented, these are all better suited for describing those two events.

There might be something illogical about the Incarnate Word (= Word + Flesh= Jesus) praying to the Preexistent Word. However, that is not the case. Jesus prays to the Father, the 1st person of the Trinity.

[marco]

Though I do not agree J.W., he has kept closer to the definition of "illogical" than you have. There is nothing illogical about Jesus' resurrection or ascension; unlikely, implausible, unprecedented, these are all better suited for describing those two events.

Thanks for that opinion. If you prefer to say that the Resurrection was implausible, fine. I agree with you. The details of the Resurrection and the gravity-defying ascent into the upper atmosphere defy reason. What I have written, I have written, as Pilate is implausibly supposed to have said.

There might be something illogical about the Incarnate Word (= Word + Flesh= Jesus) praying to the Preexistent Word. However, that is not the case. Jesus prays to the Father, the 1st person of the Trinity.

And, as you know, the Trinity is illogical too, not implausible. It would be fascinating to have your views on the OP rather than random musings about English usage, in which I feel I am in no need of assistance. Thanks all the same.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 358 by marco]

liamconnor wrote:

Though I do not agree J.W., he has kept closer to the definition of "illogical" than you have. There is nothing illogical about Jesus' resurrection or ascension; unlikely, implausible, unprecedented, these are all better suited for describing those two events.

Thanks for that opinion. If you prefer to say that the Resurrection was implausible, fine. I agree with you. The details of the Resurrection and the gravity-defying ascent into the upper atmosphere defy reason. What I have written, I have written, as Pilate is implausibly supposed to have said.

I see nothing unreasonable about a power outside of the universe reversing the processes of decay. But that is just me.

liamconnor wrote:

There might be something illogical about the Incarnate Word (= Word + Flesh= Jesus) praying to the Preexistent Word. However, that is not the case. Jesus prays to the Father, the 1st person of the Trinity.

And, as you know, the Trinity is illogical too, not implausible. It would be fascinating to have your views on the OP rather than random musings about English usage, in which I feel I am in no need of assistance. Thanks all the same.

I was not aware it was illogical; I define it as non-logical. Since God is outside of time and space, those conditions which would make it illogical are absent.

As for the OP, the error lies in anachronisms. People read into the New Testament the name YHWH where in fact it does not appear. They bring to the text the assumption that where 'God' and 'the Father' appear, these are identified with the name YHWH in the authors' minds. They aren't. The Greek substitute for YHWH was kurios, and the majority of the time this is applied to Jesus, as in Phil 2.