A suggestion for Christians

[OnceConvinced]

One of the topics we often discuss here is what makes a true Christian and what assures salvation and thus eternal life in Heaven? The big problem is we get many different people coming through here claiming to have the truth and correct understanding of scripture. However many of these people contradict each other. This is not at all helpful and I'm sure you agree that if one gets it wrong the ramifications are horrendous and many people, like I have, could spend their lives genuinely following what they believed to be Christ and correct doctrine, but find they were never true Christians to begin with because of their ignorance.

I'd like to suggest all the Christians get together in the Holy Huddle room to remedy this problem.

First of all, using holy spirit discernment, weed out all those who aren't true Christians and with those of you left, nut out together what it takes to consider yourself a true Christian.

You all being true Christians and having the holy spirit within you, I would invisage no problem with accomplishing this task. You can then come back to us as a group with your final list of conditions to consider one a true Christian and worthy of eternal life; worshiping God for all eternity, thus ensuring that we lost and sinful folk have accurate information that we can accept or reject Christ by.

Also while you are at it, for those who completely reject the bible, perhaps you could also come to a unified agreement on what Hell actually is. Is it eternal suffering, death by fire or simply the grave? I'm sure with the understanding given to you by the holy spirit, this should be an easy question for you true Christians to answer and would leave us with little doubt what we are in for if we continue on our evil and abominable ways.

If any other people have any topics they'd like sorted out perhaps they can post them on this thread? I'm sure that the holy spirit will be able to deal with them all quickly and efficiently. Maybe at last we can find out what the real truth is and what the bible really is saying to us?

I look forward to our Christian members here showing the sort of unity Paul so desired amongst the believers. I'm sure you will be eager to assist God in spreading the truth to the rest of us here and the many thousands who come into this site and read.

......................


So now having read this OP do you agree that with the Holy spirit, this venture should be easily undertaken?

If not, why not?

And if Christians cannot come to a consensus amongst themselves, using the holy spirit to gain understanding, how can any unbelievers take the bible or Christians seriously? ](*,)

[Mere_Christian]

One of the topics we often discuss here is what makes a true Christian and what assures salvation and thus eternal life in Heaven? The big problem is we get many different people coming through here claiming to have the truth and correct understanding of scripture. However many of these people contradict each other. This is not at all helpful and I'm sure you agree that if one gets it wrong the ramifications are horrendous and many people, like I have, could spend their lives genuinely following what they believed to be Christ and correct doctrine, but find they were never true Christians to begin with because of their ignorance.

I'd like to suggest all the Christians get together in the Holy Huddle room to remedy this problem.

First of all, using holy spirit discernment, weed out all those who aren't true Christians and with those of you left, nut out together what it takes to consider yourself a true Christian.

You all being true Christians and having the holy spirit within you, I would invisage no problem with accomplishing this task. You can then come back to us as a group with your final list of conditions to consider one a true Christian and worthy of eternal life; worshiping God for all eternity, thus ensuring that we lost and sinful folk have accurate information that we can accept or reject Christ by.

Also while you are at it, for those who completely reject the bible, perhaps you could also come to a unified agreement on what Hell actually is. Is it eternal suffering, death by fire or simply the grave? I'm sure with the understanding given to you by the holy spirit, this should be an easy question for you true Christians to answer and would leave us with little doubt what we are in for if we continue on our evil and abominable ways.

If any other people have any topics they'd like sorted out perhaps they can post them on this thread? I'm sure that the holy spirit will be able to deal with them all quickly and efficiently. Maybe at last we can find out what the real truth is and what the bible really is saying to us?

I look forward to our Christian members here showing the sort of unity Paul so desired amongst the believers. I'm sure you will be eager to assist God in spreading the truth to the rest of us here and the many thousands who come into this site and read.

......................

So now having read this OP do you agree that with the Holy spirit, this venture should be easily undertaken?

If not, why not?

We are not to yoke ourselves with unbelievers. Especially those that "went out" from among us.

And if Christians cannot come to a consensus amongst themselves, using the holy spirit to gain understanding, how can any unbelievers take the bible or Christians seriously? ](*,)

Who cares? Unbelievers are not the concern of the "Bible."

Now you, as a person that claims to have read the entire Bible, why don't you know that? Is there a letter from an Apostle written to non, un, and anti Christians?

Serioulsy, I must have missed that one.

[Mr. Fess]

Onceconvinced,
I totally see your frustration. We Christians should have it all together shouldn't we...? . Unfortunately we're not divine like the God in which we serve...darn it. Fortunately, Christianity has nothing to do with Christians having it all together and everything to do with Christ having it all together. However, I am sincere when I say that I understand your frustration. Think of it from our point of view...we're trying to get a message across that continues to be distorted by members of our own community.

[OnceConvinced]

If you would like to refute the authority of the bible, you need to go to another forum. This forum's rules say that we all agree the bible is authoratative.

I am not arguing about what the bible is saying. I am saying that your interpretation of it is not necessarily the correct one. Many people claim that the bible says something, but that is meaningless when these people have conflicting interpretations. Thus the reason for the thread. Get the Christians together and determine what the holy spirit is or isn't and come back to us. We'll go from there.

As I said your point is rediculous and you have not an understanding of the HS.

This is simply your opinion. Who can possibly claim to have understanding of the holy spirit? If you have understanding of what the HS, then you can surely convince other Christians that your understanding is correct. Can you do that?

Your claims of superiour understanding are meaningless. They are nothing but claims. You can point to scriptures to back up your claims, but another Christian with a conflicting veiwpoint can also point to scripture to back up their claims.

Amos has pointed you faulty reasoning out to you with scripture.

No he hasn't. All he has done is given his viewpoint on what the HS is and what it does. One persons viewpoint is not going to cut it. Let's see some unity amongst Christians on this issue. Is that too much to ask?

So yes I can say that you have not studied the bible enough because your reasoning is on a misunderstanding of the scriptures. If you have studied them for 30 years then maybe you should change your method, because it is not working.

One again, simply your arrogant opinion. What we have here are differing opinions and neither of us can prove they are correct. Once again you are claiming to have superiour understanding, but just because you see one thing and I see another does not make it so. Convince the thousands of other Christians that share my view that your view is the right one and we can talk more. Heck, I'm not even asking you to convince thousands. Simply get together with the Christians here and come to a consensus. Talk is cheap. Let's see some unity.

There is nothing you could say or do to burst my bubble. I would like you to point out to me where I said that I have the definitive interpretation. What have I misinterpreted? Is there a point you would like to debate, or are you just browsing the forums to throw in your quips?

If you wish to debate about what the HS is or isn't, perhaps start a new thread. I suggest the Holly Huddle room where you can debate with just Christians. Do you think you can convince them your understanding of the HS is the right one?

[OnceConvinced]

We are not to yoke ourselves with unbelievers. Especially those that "went out" from among us.

Then what are you doing at this website, rubbing shoulders with us unbelievers, many of whom are exChristians? What are you even doing on this thread, replying to one who "went out". Seems like you are disobeying the word of your God.

And if Christians cannot come to a consensus amongst themselves, using the holy spirit to gain understanding, how can any unbelievers take the bible or Christians seriously? ](*,)

Who cares? Unbelievers are not the concern of the "Bible."

Now you, as a person that claims to have read the entire Bible, why don't you know that? Is there a letter from an Apostle written to non, un, and anti Christians?

Serioulsy, I must have missed that one.

Oh, so there's no great commission then? There's no command to preach the gospel to the world? You're not called to be witnesses? The unbelievers can fry in hell, is that what you're saying? Who cares that they don't understand scripture?

Great, what a loving and caring Christian attitude you have. I'm just glad that if Judgement Day ever comes it won't be you and people like you doing the judging.

Why are you even here trying to defend Christianity and the bible against unbelievers for if the bible is not intended for them?

[OnceConvinced]

Onceconvinced,
I totally see your frustration. We Christians should have it all together shouldn't we...? . Unfortunately we're not divine like the God in which we serve...darn it. Fortunately, Christianity has nothing to do with Christians having it all together and everything to do with Christ having it all together. However, I am sincere when I say that I understand your frustration. Think of it from our point of view...we're trying to get a message across that continues to be distorted by members of our own community.

Hi, Mr Fess and welcome. You seem like a civil and friendly Christian. First impression anyway.

I don't argue that Christianity is not about Christians getting it together, but I do believe that with the holy spirit this should be achievable. What do you think the holy spirit does? Do you see it as something that helps you gain a correct understanding of scripture? Do you see it as something that brings discernment? Do you think it guides you to say the things you need to say? Many genuine Christians do. I see it as all those things, even if that conflicts with what people like Tlong believe based on their understanding of scripture. If the HS can do these things, then I see no reason why my suggestion cannot be put into action and why Christians cannot "Get it together". However if I take off the God glasses I can cearly see that because Christians can't "Get it goether" that the HS really isn't all it's cracked up to be. What it shows me is that the HS is non existant and therefore most likely the Christian god too. And I'm sure it is the same for many other unbelievers here too.

[InTheFlesh]

Mat 13
[24] Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
[26] But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
[28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
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Are you claiming to know which are wheat and which are tares?
How can you say the wheat are not in agreement
if you are not able to identify them?

And the point is not whether or not all believers agree.
It's about having faith.
It's a learning and growing process until the day of unity!

[OnceConvinced]

Are you claiming to know which are wheat and which are tares?
How can you say the wheat are not in agreement
if you are not able to identify them?

I am not claiming to know which are the wheat and the tares. But I do know that the bible tells us we will know who the true Christians are by their fruit. The holy spirit aside, you still have that to go by.

If you want me to be the judge, sure I could and by going by biblical criteria, I'd be able to strike a lot of members here off the list, while endorsing a handful who seem to show the Christian attributes. However what Christian would want me, an ex-Christian judging whether they are true Christians or not?

And the point is not whether or not all believers agree.
It's about having faith.

No doubt to you and fellow Christains the main thing is faith. However for those of us who don't believe, the main thing is not faith. And it can't be, not until we can know for sure that faith is important and necessary. It is more important that we have accurate information that we can make a judgement on. Only then can we determine whether faith is as important as what you say it is. Our souls are supposedly at stake here. If Christians cannot be unified now (which they should be via the HS), then how can we take any one of them seriously when they claim to know the truth and when they claim "You just don't understand scripture"?

It's a learning and growing process until the day of unity!

And when will this day of unity be. Sounds like it will be too late for the rest of us who are trying to find the truth but are getting conflicting messages from those who claim to have it.

[InTheFlesh]

It is never too late to put your faith in God.

You don't believe that God exists.
All Christians agree that God exists.
Why don't you address that?
Since all Christians agree that God exists,
what is your excuse for not believing that he exists?

[InTheFlesh]

Pss.133
[1] Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
[2] It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;
[3] As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

Eternal Life is a commandment
so who shall stop it?

[catalyst]

ITF,

"Eternal life" in some form is a given regardless of religious belief or command FROM "belief and was even happening prior to jesus belief, which only stemmed around 2000 years ago. Life just changes form, but it is still LIFE. (and no I am not into reincarnation as it is understood)

You do realise that all life forms have been living, then dying and in their death being party to new life growing, right? Or perhaps you don't mulch and aren't as EF as some?

What your input as to "eternal life" has to do with the OP and christians coming together with a unified message as to their belief, I don't know.