Did God restore Israel in 1948?

[dad1]

Israel must be back in the land in the end time according to the bible. Some people suggest that God brought them back, and that they are now fulfilling prophesy such as the desert blooming like a rose etc. Can anyone support that idea? Several denominations do make such claims.

In the end, after the remnant repents and Jesus returns, is when God restores believing Israel to the land. Not, as far as I can tell, in 1948. So, there are good bible teaching preachers that seem to think otherwise (Jack Hibbs, Behold Israel, Jan Markell, James Kaddis, Bret meador, etc etc). The thread is for someone to support their claims. In other threads I have not seen this done yet.

[dad1]

Tell me, what sense does it possibly make that God would destroy the entire universe because of what a few generations of wicked men have done??

You made that up. I never said any such thing. The earth is destroyed and burned and made new after the millennium. That is when the rapture for the millennium saints happens after the wicked surround their camp. Then God destroys them with fire. There are no saved people on the planet at that time. God saves them from here. It is after the 1000 years that the earth is burned with fire. Where are believers, you ask? Probably in our home, New Jerusalem. Notice it never appears near the earth till this time?

The "heavens" literally contain BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of stars and planets, so many that we cannot count them. Do you really think that God is going to get rid of them all?

Yes. I also know science has a wrong idea of what stars and the universe really are. You should realize the stars were made after the world! We are the reason for the universe. God is moving here one day. The heavens we know are temporal and will not exist after the 1000 years. Nor will this earth (at least the surface area).

No....."new heavens" has two meanings. One, the literal heavens will be rid of any evil (which actually happened when Jesus threw Satan and his demons out of heaven in the recent past),

Says who? Verse that says that the heavens really means demons cast out of them or whatever?? No. The heavens are where the stars and sun is.

and two, the metaphorical "heavens" is meant to mean the governmental positions by men, which will be totally done away with when Jesus takes over the rule of the literal earth.

Chapter and verse where it says the heavens are government??

[Miles]

Israel must be back in the land in the end time according to the bible.

Hey, the Bible also says:

Mark 13: 30-31
“30 I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living. 31 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever.

—Never happened— So, so much for what the Bible says.

Also, the planet and the heavens are never said to be destroyed.

In the given context I'll take the NWT's "will pass away" as synonymous with "destroyed" any day of the week.

Mark 13:31 (New World Translation)
31  Heaven and earth will pass away,+ but my words will by no means pass away.+

Thank you,

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"Heaven" refers to the governmental arrangements by men. The "earth" here refers to the wicked societies of men. Dig a little deeper.

Hmmm. Well, lets see what the Jehovah's Witnesses Web Site has to say about heaven.

"The word “heaven” is used in three basic senses in the Bible: (1) the physical heavens; (2) the spirit realm; and (3) a symbol of a high or exalted position. In each case, the context helps determine the correct understanding. 

1. The physical heavens. In this sense, “the heavens” refers to earth’s atmosphere, where the winds blow, the birds fly, the clouds produce rain and snow, and the lightning flashes.

2. The spirit realm. The term “heaven” also refers to the spiritual heavens, or spirit realm, a level of existence higher than and outside of the physical universe.

3. A symbol of a high or exalted position. The Scriptures "Governmental arrangements by men" elevated position."

Ah, not a thing about "'Heaven' referring to the governmental arrangements by men."

Ah, yes....you have shown it yourself. "Governmental arrangements by men" are situations that are "high and exalted." Elevated positions to be sure. My point is well-documented, even by you.

Ah, it doesn't read "exalted" or Elevated positions" plural, but "elevated position," singular. Even in the introduction "position" is singular.

(3) a symbol of a high or exalted position.

But more importantly, heaven is only a symbol of that position, not an actual position per se. To paraphrase a bit, "The word 'heaven' is . . . (3) a symbol of . . . . "

So, as I said, there's nothing about "Heaven' referring to the governmental arrangements by men." Heaven is only referring to a symbol of Scriptures elevated position. Now I have no idea of what the significance of this is, but because the Jehovah's Witnesses Web Site goes out of its way to emphasize the symbology of a thing I assume it's meaningful to them, and I assume you would know what this is. Care to share?


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[1213]

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But even if the exact day is unknown it doesn't preclude the "fact" that "all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living." Even if I don't know when your birthday is, doesn't mean it won't occur sometime within the next 365 days.

If you know it happens in 365, then you know in some level when it happens. I think it is wrong interpretation to think it means necessary the people of his time.

[Miles]

...
But even if the exact day is unknown it doesn't preclude the "fact" that "all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living." Even if I don't know when your birthday is, doesn't mean it won't occur sometime within the next 365 days.

If you know it happens in 365, then you know in some level when it happens. I think it is wrong interpretation to think it means necessary the people of his time.

I will have a birthday in 365 days. Do you know in some level when (like the month and day) it will happen? Of course you don't.

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[2ndpillar2]

1948 is not "in that day", the day of the "LORD", for the Jews were, and are not yet fully established in Jerusalem.

Show a verse that says God restored them there? Yes they have to be there for prophesy, but they came on their own. They are not saved yet.

It took until the 2020s before the U.S. established a consulate in Jerusalem. 1948 was a progression of 1917 when the British made the Balfour Declaration whereas the Zionist (Jews) were permitted into Judea. 1967 is just a furtherance of what is going on, as well as 1973 Israeli war. "In that day" would refer to Isaiah 22:15-25 whereas the heir of Peter, the pope, the guy with the supposed key of David, placed over the "royal household", would "fall" and all those hanging onto him (the Gentile church) would be "cut off".

Isaiah 22:20
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:

The guy was a historical figure. Nothing to do with the end time day of the Lord or 1948. Also no one says a pope has any key of David. I would not even trust kids with that guy.

The rest of your post is a conflation of claims strung together that have nothing to do with the topic.

As per Is 22:15-25, Peter (Mt 16:18) created a dwelling place for himself in the "rock", was given the "keys", made head of the church (royal household), shamed his father's house (church) per Zech 13, and will "fall" "in that day", as in the "day of the LORD" per Mt 13:41, for he and his heirs are a "stumbling block" (Mt 16:23). And no one is "saved" until the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) (Mt 24:13). The "kingdom" was taught via parables so that the "wicked"/lawless could not understand (Mt 13:13). It is the "wicked"/lawless who will be thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Mt 13:49-50).

[dad1]

As per Is 22:15-25, Peter (Mt 16:18) created a dwelling place for himself in the "rock",

Isa 22 and Mt have absolutely no relation to 1948. If you claim they do explain. Otherwise we have to consider that you are spamming random verses. We all dwell in Jesus, not sure what your point is.

was given the "keys", made head of the church (royal household),

Heavens, I hope you are not suggesting it is the end time now and the pope is David or some such?? By the way have you reason too think that believers are not all given the keys to heaven?

shamed his father's house (church) per Zech 13, and will "fall" "in that day", as in the "day of the LORD"

Not sure what you are trying to suggest. Who will fall in what day?

per Mt 13:41, for he and his heirs are a "stumbling block" (Mt 16:23). And no one is "saved" until the "day of the LORD"

People are saved every day. In fact one reason Jesus has not already come is likely because He patiently waits for more to be saved.

(Joel 2:31-32) (Mt 24:13). The "kingdom" was taught via parables so that the "wicked"/lawless could not understand (Mt 13:13). It is the "wicked"/lawless who will be thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Mt 13:49-50).

Again not sure what your point is. At first glance it seems to be suggesting that Jesus somehow did not want all to be saved?

[2ndpillar2]

As per Is 22:15-25, Peter (Mt 16:18) created a dwelling place for himself in the "rock",

Isa 22 and Mt have absolutely no relation to 1948. If you claim they do explain. Otherwise we have to consider that you are spamming random verses. We all dwell in Jesus, not sure what your point is.

was given the "keys", made head of the church (royal household),

Heavens, I hope you are not suggesting it is the end time now and the pope is David or some such?? By the way have you reason too think that believers are not all given the keys to heaven?

shamed his father's house (church) per Zech 13, and will "fall" "in that day", as in the "day of the LORD"

Not sure what you are trying to suggest. Who will fall in what day?

per Mt 13:41, for he and his heirs are a "stumbling block" (Mt 16:23). And no one is "saved" until the "day of the LORD"

People are saved every day. In fact one reason Jesus has not already come is likely because He patiently waits for more to be saved.

(Joel 2:31-32) (Mt 24:13). The "kingdom" was taught via parables so that the "wicked"/lawless could not understand (Mt 13:13). It is the "wicked"/lawless who will be thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Mt 13:49-50).

Again not sure what your point is. At first glance it seems to be suggesting that Jesus somehow did not want all to be saved?

Isaiah 22:15-25 is with respect to Yeshua placing the church (house of God/"royal household"), and the keys of David/kingdom, into the hands of Peter (Zechariah 11:16-17), who would not feed, care or tend the sheep (Ez 34), and his heirs, until "in that day", which is the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), the day of judgment, when the holder of the keys, which are claimed to be in possession of the pope by way of Peter, who will "fall", and those "hanging on" to the heirs of Peter will be "cut off". 1948 is simply an intermediate date in which the Jewish state is being prepared for the nations to come against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:1-2), the home of the Jews, at which time the "LORD" will crush all the nations/Gentiles (Daniel 2:44-45) and raise up an everlasting kingdom. And no one is "saved" at this point from the "day of judgment", which is the day of the LORD. In spite of what the false prophet Paul (Mt 7:13-15) might have told you, you are going to die (Jeremiah 31:30). The LORD provides a "narrow" "way" "that leads to life" (Mt 19:16), which is to turn from "wickedness"/lawlessness to "righteousness" (Ez 18:21), but the "many" have instead chose the "broad way" that leads to "destruction"/death (Mt 7:13-15) which is choosing the path of the false prophet, which is the false gospel of grace, which is the gospel of lawlessness/wickedness, which winds up in death and destruction. As for "believers", the demons believe that God is one, yet they tremble, and where does their leader wind up? The devil and the false prophet winds up in the lake of fire (Rev 20:10). One is judged on their deeds (Rev 20:12). The "kingdom" is established after all the kingdoms/nations/Gentiles are crushed by the stone made without hands (Daniel 2:44-45). When man dies, they go to the grave, not to be interviewed by some saint Peter to get a seat on some cloud. The story that you are saved and will not die is the message of the evil one/devil/serpent, first given in the garden (Genesis 3:4).

[dad1]

Isaiah 22:15-25 is with respect to Yeshua placing the church (house of God/"royal household"), and the keys of David/kingdom, into the hands of Peter

Weak interpretation.

None of that passage has anything to do with Peter. Why waste our time?
Example Isaiah 22:21
And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
Isaiah 22:22
And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Did you really not know who that was talking about?

Revelation 3:7
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

(Zechariah 11:16-17), who would not feed, care or tend the sheep (Ez 34), and his heirs, until "in that day", which is the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), the day of judgment, when the holder of the keys, which are claimed to be in possession of the pope by way of Peter, who will "fall", and those "hanging on" to the heirs of Peter will be "cut off".

Again, spammed verses and a display of a true inability to see what you are reading.

1948 is simply an intermediate date in which the Jewish state is being prepared for the nations to come against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:1-2), the home of the Jews, at which time the "LORD" will crush all the nations/Gentiles (Daniel 2:44-45) and raise up an everlasting kingdom.

I guess you are bound to get something right considering the law of averages.

And no one is "saved" at this point from the "day of judgment", which is the day of the LORD.

Plenty are saved in the last seven year tribulation. There are also untold millions of children born to people after He starts to rule. Are you suggesting these little ones are all damned?

In spite of what the false prophet Paul (Mt 7:13-15) might have told you, you are going to die (Jeremiah 31:30).

So now you focus your weirdness one the guy who wrote more books than anyone else. OK.
The rest of your rambling spam post is more of the same time wasting nonsense. But since you have resorted to blasphemy I will keep responses shorter.

[2ndpillar2]

Isaiah 22:15-25 is with respect to Yeshua placing the church (house of God/"royal household"), and the keys of David/kingdom, into the hands of Peter

Weak interpretation.

None of that passage has anything to do with Peter. Why waste our time?
Example Isaiah 22:21
And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
Isaiah 22:22
And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Did you really not know who that was talking about?

Revelation 3:7
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

(Zechariah 11:16-17), who would not feed, care or tend the sheep (Ez 34), and his heirs, until "in that day", which is the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), the day of judgment, when the holder of the keys, which are claimed to be in possession of the pope by way of Peter, who will "fall", and those "hanging on" to the heirs of Peter will be "cut off".

Again, spammed verses and a display of a true inability to see what you are reading.

1948 is simply an intermediate date in which the Jewish state is being prepared for the nations to come against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:1-2), the home of the Jews, at which time the "LORD" will crush all the nations/Gentiles (Daniel 2:44-45) and raise up an everlasting kingdom.

I guess you are bound to get something right considering the law of averages.

And no one is "saved" at this point from the "day of judgment", which is the day of the LORD.

Plenty are saved in the last seven year tribulation. There are also untold millions of children born to people after He starts to rule. Are you suggesting these little ones are all damned?

In spite of what the false prophet Paul (Mt 7:13-15) might have told you, you are going to die (Jeremiah 31:30).

So now you focus your weirdness one the guy who wrote more books than anyone else. OK.
The rest of your rambling spam post is more of the same time wasting nonsense. But since you have resorted to blasphemy I will keep responses shorter.

Yeshua had the keys yet turned them over to Peter to fulfill the Law and the prophets according to Mt 5:17 & Mt 16:19, which was the fulfillment of Is 22:15-25. He doesn't need them while in heaven, and he will reclaim them when the devil is locked into the pit. As for any born during the millennium, they will all die after the age of 100 years or be thought of as accursed (Is 65:20). At the white throne judgment, they will rise from the dead along with other dead and be judged according to their deeds (Rev 20:12). As for will any "escape"/"survive" (saved) the day of the LORD, well certainly. According to Joel 2:31-32, those will be those found in Jerusalem (Jews) and on Mount Zion (those who keep the Commandments). Now as far as those who have the mark of the beast, well they may survive, but not without drinking from the cup of the wrath of God (Rev 14:10). As for the writings of Paul, the tare seed, the message of the "evil one" (Mt 13), it was planted right alongside the wheat seed, in the same field/book/NT, and will remain protected until the "end of the age", whereas the angels will gather the tares into a bundle and toss them into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:30).

[dad1]

Yeshua had the keys yet turned them over to Peter to fulfill the Law and the prophets according to Mt 5:17 & Mt 16:19, which was the fulfillment of Is 22:15-25.

Unless He was talking about believers (the church) Peter was not to fulfill the law and prophets! Jesus did that.

He doesn't need them while in heaven, and he will reclaim them when the devil is locked into the pit.

Show a verse that says Jesus reclaims keys at a certain time? Otherwise why make stuff up?

As for any born during the millennium, they will all die after the age of 100 years or be thought of as accursed (Is 65:20).

Right..and...so? Point?

At the white throne judgment, they will rise from the dead along with other dead and be judged according to their deeds (Rev 20:12).

And...point?

As for the writings of Paul, the tare seed, the message of the "evil one" (Mt 13), it was planted right alongside the wheat seed, in the same field/book/NT, and will remain protected until the "end of the age", whereas the angels will gather the tares into a bundle and toss them into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:30).

Not sure, but you seem to be blaspheming here and badmouthing Paul.