JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

[Revelations won]

What was the date of this claim of the Kingdom of God restored in 1914?

What did God do to set up the Kingdom of Heaven?

Is there any record of what he said to accomplish this great event?

Did the JW's originally claim that Christ would come on the date they claimed?

Let us hear your clear answers to the above questions.

Kind regards,
RW

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #8]

You "PRESUME the witnesses were faithful angels? Presume?

I presume because Daniel didn't specifically say "The Coronation" was witnessed by the heavenly angels.

However, since Ezekiel speaks about the cherubs and seraphs serving in the presence of the Almighty and the book of Job (and Kings) verifies there are occassions in heaven when the angels assemble before YHWH (Jehovah), I cannot imagine the most momentus event since the a sons of God applauded creation, they were not present for the coronaion of the Son of God!

DANIEL 7:13, 14

I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man+ was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days,+ and they brought him up close before that One.


... 14 And to him there were given rulership,+ honor,+ and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him.+ His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

[Avoice]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #26]

Yeah...it means anointed one. And the church translates it correctly I'm EVERY PLACE EXCEPT here in Daniel
You think that's okay apparently

NO WHERE IN THE HEBREW BIBLE IS THE ONE WE WAIT FOR CALLED MOSHIACH.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #26]

Yeah...it means anointed one. And the church translates it correctly I'm EVERY PLACE EXCEPT here in Daniel
You think that's okay apparently

NO WHERE IN THE HEBREW BIBLE IS THE ONE WE WAIT FOR CALLED MOSHIACH.

Well, what does Moshiach mean?

And I'm looking at Daniel 9:25,26. The Interlinear Bible uses the word "Messiah" there. The Jewish Bible/ Tanakh, the Holy Scriptures uses the words "the anointed one" and "anointed leader." They mean the same thing.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #21]

I feel sorry for you. Your translations have robbed you of the truth.


Oh...and your Isaiah quote.... It DOES NOT say HE received the stroke. It says THEY.....THEY were stricken. Church couldn't have that so they changed it to HE. They...they..it's about Israel. And if you read the chapters surrounding 53 you'll see Israel described as despised and stricken. And Isaiah even says over and over that the servant is Israel.

Where does Isaiah say in chapter 53 that the servant is Israel? It couldn't be because he said "no deception was found in his mouth," and the Scriptures say over and over that the nation of Israel was deceptive with the people, and they were violent, which the servant never is, as we can see from reading chapter 53.

Micah said of Israel:

"Her rich men are full of violence and her inhabitants speak lies; their tongue is deceitful in their mouth." (Micah 6:12)

There are MANY scriptures such as that to show that the nation of Israel was corrupt and in very much trouble with YHWH. Chapter 53 of Isaiah could not have been speaking about the nation. In fact, Isaiah says that the servant would be sacrificed for the ERRORS of the nation. You can see this in ANY translation of the Bible. JWs don't use just the NWT.

BTW, the verses do not say "they" were afflicted, it always says "he." Your translation needs a second look.

Maybe you missed this Avoice.

[Avoice]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #33]

First of all, the term “mashiach”, which literally means “anointed one,” is NEVER used in the Torah in reference to the Messiah as we think of it today.
If you were walking around Jerusalem two thousand years ago and asked where the Messiah was they would say Which one? It was a term
There is used for high priests and kings ...those who God anoints. The word appears 39 times in the Torah and the word is not used for the one we are waiting for.
No one in Jerusalem would have thought you were talking about the one we are waiting for.

The passages in Daniel mistranslate it. Saying The Messiah. Using a capital M and adding THE to it. There is no separate word 'the' in hebrew. And there are no capitals in hebrew. But by adding THE and a capital it looks like it's a different , special person..must be Jesus!! THE MESSIAH!! As to say Theee Messiah.

I have more posts to respond to so I can't spend an hour typing though I could. But if the deception of the church doesn't effect you then telling you that we know Daniels prophecies begin telling about an anointed one and we know it is Cyrus.

Daniel tells of an anointed prince appearing after 7 weeks, after which “a street and moat” will be built, standing for 62 weeks, but in troubled times. The anointed prince was Cyrus (whom God referred to as his mashiach (Isaiah 45:1)) who was to grant the Jews permission to rebuild the Temple.

[Avoice]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #31]

Yeah...and Satan appears before God too. What of it? Are you saying Jesus is Satan?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #33]

First of all, the term “mashiach”, which literally means “anointed one,” is NEVER used in the Torah in reference to the Messiah as we think of it today.

John, a Jew said, “We have found the Mes·siʹah” - John 1:41
Clearly they were not looking for just an ordinary "anointed one".
So, there is a problem with your claim. It's not just a "Messiah as we think of it today." It was what they thought 2000 years ago too.

[Avoice]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #37]

You need the Hebrew Scriptures to support any argument about this. You can't quite the new testament. That's circular reasoning.

Nice try but no

[Avoice]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #37]

I know the passage you quoted. You said "John, a Jew said ..". No, John didn't say that. It was Andrew. Just because he said it means nothing. Tell me what made him think it was Jesus. What did he base that determination on?

John...he was Jesus' great witness. Really? The last thing John is quoted to have said was he asked his disciples to go ask Jesus "is he the one who is to come or do they look for another?"

Some witness that John! He knew Jesus personally and his testimony gives no reason to believe Jesus was the one

I don't recall God anointing Jesus either.

Youre proof text concerning the Messiah must be upheld with the Hebrew Scriptures. And it NEVER refers to the one we wait for as Moshiach

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #37]

I know the passage you quoted. You said "John, a Jew said ..". No, John didn't say that. It was Andrew. Just because he said it means nothing.

It doesn't matter about your opinion on what Andrew said. (and yes you're right it was Andrew)
It is a written record of what people of that time were looking for, a special person and it wasn't just some normal messiah. The Greek uses "THE messiah". By using the definite article it means they were looking for THE anointed one. So, you're wrong when you said, "If you were walking around Jerusalem two thousand years ago and asked where the Messiah was they would say Which one?" They KNEW what they were looking for, they were looking THE anointed one.

There are more accounts that people were looking for something different that just some normal messiah.
John the Baptist said, "“I baptize in water. One is standing among you whom you do not know, the one coming behind me, the lace of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.” - John 1:26, 27

And I don't care about your opinion of that John the Baptist said. I'm addressing your comment if some said messiah, they would have said, which one. You're wrong to say this and the Greek scriptures says back me up. If don't accept the Greek Scriptures as a valid reference then you're in the wrong forum. It was not some some normal messiah that they were looking for in the 1st century CE. They were looking for someone special. John continues, "The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and he said: “See, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" - John 1:29. No normal messiah that can do this, take sin away from the world. The Jews of the time were looking for Jehovah's anointed one. The one that would stand a against the kings of the Earth. Take back the throne as king, declare the good news, liberate captives and bind up the brokenhearted. (Ps 2:2, Ps 89:20, Is 61:1) The only problem was, the Jews of the 1st century thought the plan was only to benefit the Jewish people. To remake an Earthly kingdom. They were mistaken. John 6:15 says, "Then Jesus, knowing that they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again to the mountain all alone." John 18:36 says, "My Kingdom is no part of this world." Again, I don't care about your opinion of the Greek Scriptures. So you can say what so and so said doesn't matter, well what you say about the writings of the Greek Scriptures doesn't matter in this debate where the 66 books of the Bible carry more weight than your opinion.