So is the resurrected Jesus flesh or spirit?

[Red Wolf]

In Luke's gospel Jesus tells his disciples after his resurrection.....
Luke 24:39(King James Version)
39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

I think that this verse is quite definite in saying that the risen Jesus was flesh.
But the Scriptures by the Apostle Paul in 1Corinthians 15 are quite definite that the risen Jesus is spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:45(King James Version)
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:50(King James Version)
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
So is the resurrected Jesus flesh or spirit?
Or is this just more evidence that the Bible is fiction?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 23 by onewithhim]

In a letter to Timothy, Jesus is described as "the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see." (I Timothy 6:16) Does that sound like he is in a physical body? No human could see him as he is now!

I think you will find, onewithhim, that Paul was describing, not Jesus, but God the Father!

15 which God will bring about in His own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and might forever. Amen.

Oops...

OK, Checkpoint, what version are you using? The NWT shows that Paul was referring to Jesus, not God.

"Observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality...[etc.]."


What do other versions say?

21st Century New Testament: "Keep your commission free from all blame or accusation until our Lord Jesus Christ is manifest. Then in due time, will be revealed the one and only happy and all powerful Sovereign, he who is King over all kings and Lord over all lords. He, the only immortal...."

Young's Literal Translation: "Keep the command unspotted, unblameable, till the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, which in his own times he shall show--the blessed and only potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who only is having immortality...."

New American Bible: "Keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ that the blessed and only ruler will make manifest at the proper time, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality...."

New American Standard Bible: "Keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which he will bring about at the proper time---he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality...."


Dang, Checkpoint---all these versions tell me that it is Jesus Christ we are talking
about. Someone might wonder what "potentate" means. According to Webster, it means "a powerful person; ruler; monarch." So Jesus surely fits that definition. Come to think of it, Jesus is said to be a "god," and the definition of "potentate" is exactly the definition of "god." Anyway, I still do not thing that Paul was writing about Jehovah.

[onewithhim]

So we are not a creature with a soul, but a living soul.

I think C. S.Lewis said we are not bodies with a spirit but spirits with bodies... If he didn't, I do. Our spirits came first, then our bodies as we are sown, planted, into the world of mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

I would say yes, as God's breath was definately first. Whether we were us at that point, I do not know.

You are correct, according to the Bible, brianbbs. The body was created (came first) and then the breath of life was blown into it. No spirit that would depart at death and continue on living with conscious thoughts. It was simply the life-force given by God, to enliven the body, and keep it alive.

C.S. Lewis didn't have accurate Bible knowledge, unfortunately. He apparently didn't understand the difference between "soul" and "spirit," nor did he understand Genesis 2:7.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 23 by onewithhim]

In a letter to Timothy, Jesus is described as "the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see." (I Timothy 6:16) Does that sound like he is in a physical body? No human could see him as he is now!

I think you will find, onewithhim, that Paul was describing, not Jesus, but God the Father!

15 which God will bring about in His own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and might forever. Amen.

Oops...

Not sure what you're saying "oops" about, here, Checkpoint. Paul is certainly describing God here. I'm not just responding to you here, but onewithhim also.

The clearer translation here comes from the NIV.

• I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time -- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

One characteristic of Paul’s writing is his proclivity to insert a word of praise that also contains significant theological exposition when a term or subject he has just mentioned brings to his mind some aspect of the glory of God. An example is his discussion of the electing grace of God, the inclusion of the Gentiles in God’s people Israel, and the future salvation of the Jews in Romans 9–11 moves him to exalt the wisdom and knowledge of God:

• "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to Him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen." [Romans 11:33–36]

Paul does the same thing here. He gives us doxological instruction in this passage as he uses “the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ� (6:14) as a springboard for expressing the perfections of God the Father. First, we are told that Christ’s appearance — His second coming — will be displayed “at the proper time.� The implication is that God is sovereign over the affairs of history and has appointed a day on which Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead (Acts 17:30–31). We are to fight the good fight of faith until that day, expecting our Father to use our service to hasten its coming (2 Peter 3:11–13). God is also sovereign over men, the “ruler over those who exercise rule,� and the “lord over those who exercise lordship,� as the Greek of 1 Timothy 6:15 can be more literally translated. Ultimate authority over all human authorities, great and small, belongs to our Maker alone (Deut. 10:17; Ps. 136:3).

The apostle highlights God as the one “who alone has immortality� (1 Tim. 6:16), reminding us of His self-existence. As John Calvin comments, “We and all the creatures do not, strictly speaking, live, but only borrow life from Him.� No mere man (Jesus, God the Son, is without sin and not merely man) has seen the Immortal One (God the Father) who dwells in unapproachable light, but this is a temporary reality due to our sin, for in our glorification we will see Him face to face (1 Cor. 13:12; 1 John 3:2). Calvin explains, “We (not Jesus, Who is the Redeemer) must be renewed (by the Holy Spirit, made possible by the work of the Redeemer on the cross), that we may be like God, before it be granted to us to see him.�

Again, this passage is about God the Father. No implication is made here regarding the nature of Jesus, physical or otherwise. And in actuality, this is an implicit affirmation that Jesus is God, because Christ is in the presence of God the Father -- at His right hand (which is to say in His power), which Paul affirms elsewhere:

• * Romans 8:34 -- "Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God"
  
  * Ephesians 1:20 -- "Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places"
  
  * Colossians 3:1 -- "keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God"

The writer of Hebrews does the same in several places, and so does Peter.

Grace and peace to you all.

[onewithhim]

"In Luke's gospel Jesus tells his disciples after his resurrection.....
Luke 24:39(King James Version)
39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

I think that this verse is quite definite in saying that the risen Jesus was flesh.

OK, now explain how Jesus got through the door after it was locked.


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[onewithhim]

15;45 is an interesting start on the soul. The Hebrew word is Nephesh in the Tanakh. It literally means dirt plus the breath of God. So we are not a creature with a soul, but a living soul. So, we return to dirt and God's breath returns to Him.

So do we discard the following verse?
Luke 24:39(King James Version)
39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Wasn't Jesus just really trying to get across to the disciples that he was not just an apparition or a vision? I think that was his intention. He was not raised in the flesh, but he could materialize a solid body if need be, exactly like the angels in the days of Abraham and Lot. Are you familiar with those stories? (Genesis 18:2-16; 19:1-16)


"He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit." (I Peter 3:18)



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[Eloi]

About this matter, this passage gives us the real perspective about what kind of body Jesus has after his resurrection:

Acts 10:40 God raised this One up on the third day and granted him to become manifest, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God, to us, who ate and drank with him after his rising from the dead.

"God granted Jesus to become manifest" only to his disciples ... and that means his body after resurrection is invisible, as a spirit, not visible as a body of flesh. Bible clearly says that in more than one passage:

1 Tim. 3:16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory.’

Heb. 9:14 how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works so that we may render sacred service to the living God?

1 Cor.15:44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.� The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, what is spiritual is not first. What is physical is first, and afterward what is spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust; and like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one.

1 Pet. 3:18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

2 Cor. 5:16 (...) Even if we once knew Christ according to the flesh, we certainly no longer know him in that way.

[PinSeeker]

1 Cor.15:44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body...

Yes, we Christians are now, since we have been born again, both physical and spiritual -- though we still sin (we are not sinless in this life), we are no longer spiritually dead... dead in our sin. At the time of Jesus's return, we will remain in the same state -- or return to the same state if we have previously experienced the first [physical] death -- and will be both physical and spiritual... but without sin forevermore... just like Jesus:

• "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is." [1 John 3:2]

What you guys are missing -- refuse to get, I guess -- is that it's a BOTH/AND thing, and not EITHER/OR. Yes, the physical is first, then the spiritual; the spiritual JOINS the physical. Praise be to God, it is most assuredly BOTH/AND.

Grace and peace to you all.

[Eloi]

[Replying to post 37 by PinSeeker]

Okkk? You should read the beginning of the passage ... I apologize for not posting it:

1Cor. 15:42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.� The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, what is spiritual is not first. What is physical is first, and afterward what is spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust; and like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one.

It is talking about the resurrection of the dead, not about the new person that a Christian become.

And it is about the resurrection of Jesus' brothers, with him, to live among spirits:

Heb. 12:18 For YOU have not approached that which can be felt and which has been set aflame with fire, and a dark cloud and thick darkness and a tempest, 19 and the blare of a trumpet and the voice of words; on hearing which voice the people implored that no word should be added to them. 20 For the command was not bearable to them: “And if a beast touches the mountain, it must be stoned.� 21 Also, the display was so fearsome that Moses said: “I am fearful and trembling.� 22 But YOU have approached a Mount Zion and a city of [the] living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives (literally: spirits) of righteous ones who have been made perfect, 24 and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the blood of sprinkling, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s [blood].

BTW, read the other passages too. Sometimes we don't see because we don't want to.

[Yahwehismywitness]

The bible is clear Jesus appeared as flesh as he was born and conceived to human beings.
Matthew 3:16:17 And Jesus when he was baptized , went up straightaway out of the water: and lo the heavens were opened unto him, and saw the Spirit of Yahweh descending like a dove and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

A cloud received him they beheld HIM if he was spirit they would not be able to see it. Acts 1:9-10 the Son of man will appear and all shall see in the clouds Matthew 24:30 Return same as resurrection all shall see

The confusion is the voice and lightening Saul saw. Satan fell as lightening. Luke 10:18 It was in wilderness Yeshua tempted by Satan was a spirit Matthew 4 Read down to verse 7-8 Satan promised glory from all the kingdoms of the world. Damascus wilderness road 1 Kings 19:15

Think this is why Yeshua wrote Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Yeshua or there: Believe it not. Matthew 24:23

[onewithhim]

The bible is clear Jesus appeared as flesh as he was born and conceived to human beings.
Matthew 3:16:17 And Jesus when he was baptized , went up straightaway out of the water: and lo the heavens were opened unto him, and saw the Spirit of Yahweh descending like a dove and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

A cloud received him they beheld HIM if he was spirit they would not be able to see it. Acts 1:9-10 the Son of man will appear and all shall see in the clouds Matthew 24:30 Return same as resurrection all shall see

The confusion is the voice and lightening Saul saw. Satan fell as lightening. Luke 10:18 It was in wilderness Yeshua tempted by Satan was a spirit Matthew 4 Read down to verse 7-8 Satan promised glory from all the kingdoms of the world. Damascus wilderness road 1 Kings 19:15

Think this is why Yeshua wrote Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Yeshua or there: Believe it not. Matthew 24:23

The disciples saw Jesus go up into the clouds because he had been appearing to them for the last 40 days in a materialized body. He certainly went back to his spirit body upon further ascending to heaven.

Jesus will come again as he went up into the clouds. He was hidden from their sight. He will return the same way---hidden from literal eye-sight. (Let him who has ears to hear, hear.)

"While they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their sight." (Acts 1:9)

They couldn't see him anymore. When he returns, mankind on the earth will "see" him with their eyes of understanding. Don't we say, when we understand something, "oh, I see"?

If you don't see it, re-read I Peter 3:18 and I Corinthians 15:45.



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