How can Jesus have been betrayed if he knew ?

[dio9]

Tradition clearly states Jesus was betrayed.
How can Jesus have been betrayed if he knew Judas was going to betray him? Betrayal is a surprise unexpected . Betrayal means taken by surprise. Have you ever been betrayed?

I believe Jesus was betrayed but as a biblical buff question the Gospel account where Jesus dismisses Judas to go do what he has to do.

John 13:26
Jesus replied, “He’s the one I give the piece of bread to after I have dipped it.� When He had dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas, Simon Iscariot’s son.

How can he be betrayed if he knows he is going to be betrayed?

As I said I believe he was betrayed but am afraid the account in John's Gospel is drama.

Show me I am thinking wrong.

[2timothy316]

People underestimate Satan all the time. Even though we are told his tactics. He keeps 'disguising himself as an angel of light' recruiting 'deceitful workers'. (2 Cor 11:13, 14) But he is very good at what he does

Sure, but I think the problem is in ourselves rather than in Satan in that we tend to look at what we want to look at instead of looking at what God has revealed to us.

It appears to be both plus one. There are 3 major enemies. Satan, the world people have made and ourselves. These are the things working against us to follow the commandments left by Jesus.

Take your example here with Satan disguising himself. Instead of looking at the disguise we might instead look at what is getting disguised in the first place, i.e. "himself" which as it turns out is precisely what Christ suggests be denied in the first place.

People look for an answer that pleases their heart. When that answer is lets say violence, for a person that loves violence, Satan will give a violent choice. That choice will seem like the best way to handle things. Even giving that choice a label of 'holy'. The Crusades for example of the Middle Ages or the modern day Jihad. Making war look glorious and acceptable to God. So back to those 3 enemies, Satan, the world and self. Satan presents the plan, the world then glorifies that plan and then the wicked at heart execute that plan. Satan makes things found in 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10 appear like 'light' or good for us. This is what is meant by changing into an 'angel of light'.

[dio9]

People underestimate Satan all the time. Even though we are told his tactics. He keeps 'disguising himself as an angel of light' recruiting 'deceitful workers'. (2 Cor 11:13, 14) But he is very good at what he does

Sure, but I think the problem is in ourselves rather than in Satan in that we tend to look at what we want to look at instead of looking at what God has revealed to us. Take your example here with Satan disguising himself. Instead of looking at the disguise we might instead look at what is getting disguised in the first place, i.e. "himself" which as it turns out is precisely what Christ suggests be denied in the first place.

without God's Word the Bible to give us instruction, we would be defenseless. [

Even with the bible, one may be just as defenseless, especially if one doesn't understand what they're reading. The light may shine into the hearts of men, but it there is no way for them to receive it, then the darkness is incapable of understanding. Job is another example. God tells Satan he can do anything he pleases to Job, but who is Job dealing with other than Job himself? It is the self that is being attacked, and the self that must be denied. This is the only thing Satan can attack. No self, means no target for satan.

The details in this fight for people's loyalty is beyond our full comprehension but not beyond our means to fully guard ourselves.

I disagree. The self cannot be defended in the first place. Being self aware necessarily requires a sense of vulnerability.

Ya think Judas thought he was doing a good thing? talk about delusion, deluded by Satan the false angel of light

[2timothy316]

without God's Word the Bible to give us instruction, we would be defenseless. [

Even with the bible, one may be just as defenseless, especially if one doesn't understand what they're reading. The light may shine into the hearts of men, but it there is no way for them to receive it, then the darkness is incapable of understanding.

Only if a person chooses darkness. The Bible says in 2 Timothy 3:17 that the Bible can make a 'man of God fully competent, completely equipped for every good work'. Jehovah will not leave a sincere person defenseless without wisdom. James 1:5 says, "So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him."

Job is another example. God tells Satan he can do anything he pleases to Job, but who is Job dealing with other than Job himself? It is the self that is being attacked, and the self that must be denied. This is the only thing Satan can attack. No self, means no target for satan.

Yet lack of self also gives Satan a target. If we don't love ourselves then how can we love others as ourselves? It is a balance though because we don't want to put ourselves above others. Philippians 2:3, 4 states, "Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you, as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others." There is a balance to 'self'. Indeed we are to consider other superior to ourselves but it also says to look out for our own interests and other's interests.

Not looking out for our own interests can lead to depression and despair. These things make a person very vulnerable to Satan's traps. Traps such as isolation, self mutilation or even suicide.

[2timothy316]

The details in this fight for people's loyalty is beyond our full comprehension but not beyond our means to fully guard ourselves.

I disagree. The self cannot be defended in the first place. Being self aware necessarily requires a sense of vulnerability.

According to the Bible there is a suit of armor that can be 'put on' for defense.

“Put on the complete suit of armor from God that you may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil.�​—EPHESIANS 6:11.

That armor consist of:
The Belt of Truth.
The Breast Plate of Righteousness
The Shoes of the Good News of Peace
The Large Shield of Faith
The Helmet of Salvation
The Sword of God's Word

All of these things together can defend us. Leave a piece off and we are vulnerable.

[shnarkle]

People underestimate Satan all the time. Even though we are told his tactics. He keeps 'disguising himself as an angel of light' recruiting 'deceitful workers'. (2 Cor 11:13, 14) But he is very good at what he does

Sure, but I think the problem is in ourselves rather than in Satan in that we tend to look at what we want to look at instead of looking at what God has revealed to us.

It appears to be both plus one. There are 3 major enemies. Satan, the world people have made and ourselves. These are the things working against us to follow the commandments left by Jesus.

Take your example here with Satan disguising himself. Instead of looking at the disguise we might instead look at what is getting disguised in the first place, i.e. "himself" which as it turns out is precisely what Christ suggests be denied in the first place.

People look for an answer that pleases their heart. When that answer is lets say violence, for a person that loves violence, Satan will give a violent choice. That choice will seem like the best way to handle things. Even giving that choice a label of 'holy'. The Crusades for example of the Middle Ages or the modern day Jihad. Making war look glorious and acceptable to God. So back to those 3 enemies, Satan, the world and self. Satan presents the plan, the world then glorifies that plan and then the wicked at heart execute that plan. Satan makes things found in 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10 appear like 'light' or good for us. This is what is meant by changing into an 'angel of light'.

Yep, you've presented the Satanic Trinity which mimics God; man created in God's image; and the cosmos.

[shnarkle]

The details in this fight for people's loyalty is beyond our full comprehension but not beyond our means to fully guard ourselves.

I disagree. The self cannot be defended in the first place. Being self aware necessarily requires a sense of vulnerability.

According to the Bible there is a suit of armor that can be 'put on' for defense.

“Put on the complete suit of armor from God that you may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil.�​—EPHESIANS 6:11.

That armor consist of:
The Belt of Truth.
The Breast Plate of Righteousness
The Shoes of the Good News of Peace
The Large Shield of Faith
The Helmet of Salvation
The Sword of God's Word

All of these things together can defend us. Leave a piece off and we are vulnerable.

They aren't to defend the self, but to defend Truth, Righteousness, Peace, Faith, etc. Christ taught to "deny yourself", not to defend yourself. Turning the other cheeck is not a method or means of self defence.

[shnarkle]

without God's Word the Bible to give us instruction, we would be defenseless. [

Even with the bible, one may be just as defenseless, especially if one doesn't understand what they're reading. The light may shine into the hearts of men, but it there is no way for them to receive it, then the darkness is incapable of understanding.

Only if a person chooses darkness.

Yep, and that's exactly what happens when one reads scripture and believes they understand what it is saying when they haven't got a clue. I've literally done this hundreds if not thousands of times. There is no end to the depth of meaning. Only the fools think themselves wise, hence " let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all."

Job is another example. God tells Satan he can do anything he pleases to Job, but who is Job dealing with other than Job himself? It is the self that is being attacked, and the self that must be denied. This is the only thing Satan can attack. No self, means no target for satan.

Yet lack of self also gives Satan a target.

I disagree. Self is synonymous with Satan. Self is all about self.

If we don't love ourselves then how can we love others as ourselves?

You're assuming the self is necessary to love; it isn't. God's love doesn't need the self to begin with. Eliminating the self eliminates the need to balance the needs of others with our needs because their needs are our needs. When there is only Christ, there is no other. When you see the face of Christ in anyone you meet, you see the face of someone who has given all for you, and there is nothing you can hold back from Christ. It starts with "deny yourself".

Not looking out for our own interests can lead to depression and despair. These things make a person very vulnerable to Satan's traps. Traps such as isolation, self mutilation or even suicide.

Yep, and unless one is able to deny themselves, Satan will always have that target. Deny yourself and Satan can hit you with everything he's got, it doesn't matter because none it has anything to stick to when one is no longer aware of self.

[rikuoamero]

The details in this fight for people's loyalty is beyond our full comprehension but not beyond our means to fully guard ourselves.

I disagree. The self cannot be defended in the first place. Being self aware necessarily requires a sense of vulnerability.

According to the Bible there is a suit of armor that can be 'put on' for defense.

“Put on the complete suit of armor from God that you may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil.�​—EPHESIANS 6:11.

That armor consist of:
The Belt of Truth.
The Breast Plate of Righteousness
The Shoes of the Good News of Peace
The Large Shield of Faith
The Helmet of Salvation
The Sword of God's Word

All of these things together can defend us. Leave a piece off and we are vulnerable.

And here I thought the kids TV show bible man didn't have any sources in the bible.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibleman

[shnarkle]

People underestimate Satan all the time. Even though we are told his tactics. He keeps 'disguising himself as an angel of light' recruiting 'deceitful workers'. (2 Cor 11:13, 14) But he is very good at what he does

Sure, but I think the problem is in ourselves rather than in Satan in that we tend to look at what we want to look at instead of looking at what God has revealed to us. Take your example here with Satan disguising himself. Instead of looking at the disguise we might instead look at what is getting disguised in the first place, i.e. "himself" which as it turns out is precisely what Christ suggests be denied in the first place.

without God's Word the Bible to give us instruction, we would be defenseless. [

Even with the bible, one may be just as defenseless, especially if one doesn't understand what they're reading. The light may shine into the hearts of men, but it there is no way for them to receive it, then the darkness is incapable of understanding. Job is another example. God tells Satan he can do anything he pleases to Job, but who is Job dealing with other than Job himself? It is the self that is being attacked, and the self that must be denied. This is the only thing Satan can attack. No self, means no target for satan.

The details in this fight for people's loyalty is beyond our full comprehension but not beyond our means to fully guard ourselves.

I disagree. The self cannot be defended in the first place. Being self aware necessarily requires a sense of vulnerability.

Ya think Judas thought he was doing a good thing?

Of course. He wouldn't have been decieved it he didn't think what he was doing was for the best.

talk about delusion, deluded by Satan the false angel of light

Thanks for stating the obvious.

[JehovahsWitness]

Of course. He wouldn't have been decieved it he didn't think what he was doing was for the best.

The best for him maybe, I don't think that Judas believed betraying his Master was the best thing for his Master.

In any case the bible doesn't say explicitly what Judas motives were.

JW