The age of miracles

[Athetotheist]

It's not really my intention to make a whole thread out of this; I just mean to pose a question as a point of curiosity: Can anyone refer me to textual evidence that the age of miracles was to end with the passing of the apostles?

[tam]

Peace to you,

I know this was not addressed to me, but I must respond.

[Replying to post 192 by tam]

I was saying that yes, all religions have good things as well as bad things (all of them except one). Why tolerate the bad things? If my religion had bad things in it, I would leave..

You would leave? And then what and where?

The WTS makes it very hard for her members to leave for this reason (among others) - teaching her members that there is no where else for them to go. And this is true - there IS nowhere else to go... but there IS a whom for us to go to, a person:


"Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life."


A person. Not a place. Not a religion. Not a group. A person:


Christ Jaheshua, the Chosen One of JAH.


Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-30

"Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. " John 7:37





"Come out of her, my people!"

"Stop touching the unclean thing and I will take you in."




And from the Father,

"This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him."





May anyone who thirsts and anyone who wishes, as the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU, "Come! Take Life's water FREE!"


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Peace to you!

[Replying to post 192 by tam]

I was saying that yes, all religions have good things as well as bad things (all of them except one). Why tolerate the bad things? If my religion had bad things in it, I would leave..

You would leave? And then what and where?

You would first have to become convinced whatever it was was actually bad.

Very hard for anyone who is sure that "all religions have good things and bad things(all of them except one)".

There would be nowhere to go. I say like Peter: "Lord, whom shall we go away to?" (John 6:68)


.

Not a where... but a WHOM.


"Lord to whom shall we go to? YOU have the words of eternal life."




Peace again to you!
- a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 192 by tam]

I was saying that yes, all religions have good things as well as bad things (all of them except one). Why tolerate the bad things? If my religion had bad things in it, I would leave..

You would leave? And then what and where?

You would first have to become convinced whatever it was was actually bad.

Very hard for anyone who is sure that "all religions have good things and bad things(all of them except one)".

There would be nowhere to go. I say like Peter: "Lord, whom shall we go away to?" (John 6:68)

Now you are talkin'!

Peter was not talking about a reigion, and neither was Jesus.

We have been talking about good or bad, true and false, in this or that religion.

Jesus had asked his disciples, "Who do people say I am?" Then he made it personal, "Who do you say I am?"

Peter got his message and responded accordingly, loud and clear.

It is not about a religion, or its good or bad, false and true, but about a recognition of one unique person; such that it develops into a close relationship that has its own reward.

[Checkpoint]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 192 by tam]

I was saying that yes, all religions have good things as well as bad things (all of them except one). Why tolerate the bad things? If my religion had bad things in it, I would leave.


.

But weren't you just asking Checkpoint to tolerate the negative things he sees in the JW religion, for the sake of the few positive things he sees in the JW religion?
Peace again to you!
- a slave of Christ,
tammy

No.I was trying to say....why throw out the big good things you see in the JW teaching (which are quite important doctrines) for the small things that you see in other religious viewpoints such as Tam's? Why keep JWs at arm's distance over a belief that everyone should partake of the emblems at the Memorial, such as is the belief of Tam? JWs don't believe that Jesus is God, which view Checkpoint also holds, and every other religion out there that calls themselves "Christian" says that Jesus is God, so apparently JWs are right, according to Checkpoint, on that. But he rejects us because we say that only people who are going to heaven should take the Memorial emblems, and that Jesus' name was Michael before he came to Earth. Which belief is of more weight here? The doctrine that teaches that Jesus is not God or the belief that Jesus is not Michael?

I can see tat all that was what you were trying to say to me.

It was all about comparisons and how much value individual doctrines or actions supposedly have.

That seems to be your way, but it is not my way of deciding who I regularly fellowship with.

You already know what kind of people they are.

It's not about those thing s you sought to evaluate. It's all about how we respond to the greatest love of all.

[onewithhim]

Peace to you,

I know this was not addressed to me, but I must respond.

[Replying to post 192 by tam]

I was saying that yes, all religions have good things as well as bad things (all of them except one). Why tolerate the bad things? If my religion had bad things in it, I would leave..

You would leave? And then what and where?

The WTS makes it very hard for her members to leave for this reason (among others) - teaching her members that there is no where else for them to go. And this is true - there IS nowhere else to go... but there IS a whom for us to go to, a person:

We make up our own minds about where we want to go. The WT does not say, "You must believe that there is no where else to go!" I am with Peter---I know there is no other organization that Jesus is heading up.

Jehovah always has had an organization that served Him. He has never had just one man running the show, or following Him. In early Christian times there was the body of Apostles in Jerusalem. The WTS follows their example.

And it's not the WT that has made the rules about people who are casting aside their vow and leaving Jehovah's worship. It is very clear in the Scriptures. The WT follows the Scriptures to the letter.

"Actually fornication is reported among you...I for one, ...have certainly judged already...that in the name of our Lord Jesus, you hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." (I Corinthians 5:1-5)

"Quit mixing in company with fornicators...with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man....Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (I Corinthians 5:9-13)

Jesus had similar sentiments to say to his disciples:

"If your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone...If he does not listen, take along with you one or two more....If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation [the elders]. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15-17)


How can anyone argue with these teachings?


.

[onewithhim]

The greatest love of all includes truth. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He brooks no false teachings. Why should we?


.

[Checkpoint]

The greatest love of all includes truth. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He brooks no false teachings. Why should we?

The greatest love is what it is, love in all its fullness. It is not about doctrinal "truth", but real love in ultimate action.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.


John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

1 John 3:16
By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

[onewithhim]

The greatest love of all includes truth. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He brooks no false teachings. Why should we?

The greatest love is what it is, love in all its fullness. It is not about doctrinal "truth", but real love in ultimate action.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.


John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

1 John 3:16
By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

I think you avoided my question. If Jesus is the truth, he, of course, does not brook lies. Why should we?



.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

I know this was not addressed to me, but I must respond.

[Replying to post 192 by tam]

I was saying that yes, all religions have good things as well as bad things (all of them except one). Why tolerate the bad things? If my religion had bad things in it, I would leave..

You would leave? And then what and where?

The WTS makes it very hard for her members to leave for this reason (among others) - teaching her members that there is no where else for them to go. And this is true - there IS nowhere else to go... but there IS a whom for us to go to, a person:

We make up our own minds about where we want to go. The WT does not say, "You must believe that there is no where else to go!"

I said they TEACH that there is nowhere else to go. But they then fail to teach the truth that there is a to WHOM we must go: Christ Jaheshua (you seem to have overlooked or are ignoring the rest of my post).

I am with Peter---I know there is no other organization that Jesus is heading up.

Dear owh, Peter said absolutely nothing about an organization. Peter is referring to Christ and to Christ alone.


"Lord to whom shall we go? YOU have the words of eternal life."


How are you not seeing this?

Jehovah always has had an organization that served Him.

What organization was Abel a part of? Or Noah? Or Abraham?

God (JAH) sanctioned one religion only: the temple and priesthood with the law, given through Moses. God was very clear about how the tabernacle (and the later temple) must be built; the clothes, the laws, etc. Of course, the priests corrupted it. God did not give another religion; He gave us His Son. That Son said that the time was coming (and had come) when the true worshipers would not worship in Jerusalem or on any other mountain. The true worshipers would worship in spirit and in truth.


And Peter was clearly referring to Christ as the one to WHOM we shall go - and to HIS words as the words of eternal life.

Nothing about an organization.

He has never had just one man running the show,

How can you say this?


But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher,h and all of you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father,i the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.


Christ is the Master, the King, the Teacher and the Leader, the Ruler over all God's Kingdom.

or following Him.

Well of course not. Who said otherwise?

In early Christian times there was the body of Apostles in Jerusalem. The WTS follows their example.

The apostles in Jerusalem followed Christ and listened to HIS words.

"Lord to whom shall we go? YOU have the words of eternal life."

And it's not the WT that has made the rules about people who are casting aside their vow and leaving Jehovah's worship. It is very clear in the Scriptures. The WT follows the Scriptures to the letter.

The WTS does not, but this (and the rest of your post) seems to be a bit of a deflection from the truth that it was Christ Himself (and not an organization) that Peter was referring to.


And leaving an organization does not mean that one is leaving JAH or His Son.



"Come out of her, my people!"

"Stop touching the unclean thing and I will take you in."

Jesus had similar sentiments to say to his disciples:

"If your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone...If he does not listen, take along with you one or two more....If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation [the elders]. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15-17)

The WTS does not follow these instructions, certainly not to the letter (easily seen by the insertion and addition of 'elder' in place of church). But for a comparison of the WTS practice to what Christ instructed, and so as not to distract from the discussion at hand, see here:

viewtopic.php?p=723455#723455

viewtopic.php?p=753657#753657


See here for further discussions on the topic:




viewtopic.php?p=785298#785298

viewtopic.php?p=785229#785229


viewtopic.php?p=829153#829153

viewtopic.php?p=829173#829173




Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Checkpoint]

The greatest love of all includes truth. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He brooks no false teachings. Why should we?

The greatest love is what it is, love in all its fullness. It is not about doctrinal "truth", but real love in ultimate action.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.


John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

1 John 3:16
By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

I think you avoided my question. If Jesus is the truth, he, of course, does not brook lies. Why should we?

Why indeed.

Unlike us, he always recognised untruth in those he called his own, and corrected them.