"God hates the wicked".

[ttruscott]

I was asked the following questions in a locked thread:

"God hates the wicked". Are you saying that parents, spouses and even children are (by default) "wicked" and worthy of hate?

So, because God hates people, yet treats them with love (???) we are supposed to do the same towards our parents, even, our spouses and our children? Hate them, but treat them with love?

Doesn't that mean we are supposed to consider others, including our loves ones, as intrinsically "hate-able"?

I must be misunderstanding what you are saying here.

I answer:

"God hates the wicked". Are you saying that parents, spouses and even children are (by default) "wicked" and worthy of hate? "

No sir, not at all. As per Matt 13: 36-40 I contend that there are two types of sinners born on earth, (only sinners are born on earth): sinful believers who are not condemned but are under the promise of redemption and sinful non-believers who are condemned already for rejecting YHWH as worthy of faith, Jn 3:18. The wicked are those who by their own choice are eternally evil, condemned to hell. The sinful people of the kingdom are not the wicked to be hated but are lost, astray in sin, to be loved back into the family of GOD. Since we do not know who that is, we are to treat all with love though to be willing to reject them totally when we are called to shut the gates of hell upon them.

Since broad is the way to perdition and narrow the gate to salvation, I suspect that the verse about not idolizing family members above the call of Christ is a pretty universal Christian experience.

The verse about loving those you hate is Matthew 5:45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. Since if referring to the name of a natural emotion, love and hate are mutually exclusive (to my mind) I must refer to one of these as the actions one must take toward the recipient of the other. Since no one would act hateful to those they love, then this suggests that though we hate the wicked, (as GOD does), we should act as loving toward them as is possible within HIS justice (as GOD does).[/quote]

So, because God hates people, yet treats them with love (???) we are supposed to do the same towards our parents, even, our spouses and our children? Hate them, but treat them with love?

Ahhh, here is where hate does not refer to the raw emotion but to action, specifically the separation in our hearts from their influence over us, 2 Corinthians 6:17 Therefore, "Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you." does not refer to a strict segregation of body but of heart and soul... As GOD walks among the wicked but is not touched by them, so too are we called to walk among the worldly, family or not, ready at all times to accept GOD's call that the time of the judgement is at hand and to come out means to be willingly and fully on HIS side of the gates when they are shut on the wicked forever.

Doesn't that mean we are supposed to consider others, including our loves ones, as intrinsically "hate-able"?

Yes, from ourselves out to all. Every sin is detestable from any sinner but hate is the willingness to damn the sin and the sinner to hell. Since we do not know who that will be we hold our judgement in abeyance until all is revealed but we stand ready with GOD to purge all of reality from evil.

[tam]

Peace to you Ted,

Would not love also do this? Save also our loved ones?

The call to not love them above Him means to relinquish them in our hearts, though we love them, to GOD's mercy or justice as HE sees fit, not to try to force HIM to care especially for them because we do...

Who said anything about force, Ted?

I did Miss Tam,

Okay. But my comment which you quoted had nothing to do with force. Just love.

in the context of Matt 10:36 A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; which implies that some elect might cling to their love for their family rather than follow Him

This is true, but this is true here and now. As explained in my previous post, if we want to be with Him wherever He goes, to serve Him and His Father, to serve in His Kingdom, then we must love Him first and most, even over our sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, etc.


Consider Christ's relationship with his own family (flesh and blood family). Had he loved them more than His Father, He might have allowed them to take him in hand (when they came to do so), to stop or hinder Him from doing the work that He had been given. How would He have been able to lead us by example if He had allowed that? How could He have led His own family into truth and life if He had allowed his mother and brothers to take him in hand (as they saw fit), in order to please them or to keep them from any distress?


Instead He continued to serve His Father and do the work that His Father had given Him, and accomplished His mission.


And that is the reason for His instructions here about loving Him first.

as they have yet to learn the full lesson of Matt 13:28 ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ 29 ‘No, he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest.

Ted, the lesson from the wheat and the weeds is simply that the wheat and the weeds grow together... all the way until the harvest. Because in pulling up the weeds too soon, some of the wheat might be uprooted (and so harmed) as well. God is not willing to risk that.

So we grow together until the harvest. But that harvest comes at the appointed time that God already set.

that it is our love of the non-elect which makes us have to live with their sin and which postpones the judgement of cleansing until the good seed are mature in holiness and righteousness.

But the parable does not state that it is the love of the wheat for the weeds that causes the wheat to live with their (weeds') sin. Nor does the parable state that this postpones the judgement.


You have connected these two verses to come to your particular interpretation, but I would test this interpretation more carefully if I were you. Not every inspired expression is from God. And as stated in my previous post, we have been given many examples to assure us that God saves entire households. That the faith of one person can save their entire household. Why would He give us these examples if they were not true? And then there are also the commandments and instructions and assurances regarding our families: honor your mother and your father; do not turn away from your own flesh and blood; the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing mate; children are holy because of a believing parent, etc.



Just some things for you to consider, and to take to Christ Jaheshua, so that you may know the truth of this matter (and any matter) from the Truth.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[brianbbs67]

Nice logical post Tam. As I have followed God more and more, I find the biggest impediments have been my immediate family. My wife is with me, but the others seek to distract. Even when they are wrong they still continue. And these are believers. I simply pray and continue on the path set for me. I have spent far too long finding the path to give it up. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God.... The rest will work itself out.