"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

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Miles
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"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.


To Note: This OP has came about more as an eye-opener about Jehovah's Witnesses rather than any attempt at disparagement. Recognizing that every religion, denomination, and congregation has the right to operate as best it sees fit under its particular guidelines, my presentation and comments are strictly the result of surprise and befuddlement after watching the video, Shun Your Family.


I've heard of disfellowship among Jehovah's Witnesses before, but never realized the extent it goes to as a disloyalty test. So, what is disfellowship?

"Disfellowship:
To 'remove the wicked
man' or woman from
the congregation
Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.23 simplified edition"

"Jehovah's Witnesses are disfellowshipped for practices such as disagreeing with Watchtower doctrine, smoking or fornication, if judged by the congregation elders as unrepentant. A disfellowshipped person is to be shunned by all family and friends, usually for the remainder of their life, and go through tremendous emotional suffering. Whilst Scriptural precedence limits association with wrongdoers, Watchtower application of disfellowshipping seriously deviates from Bible guidelines.
source


A particularly disturbing comment in the video below:

"We have to put him [Jehovah] before a father, a mother, and even our children if they're disfellowshipped. And if the disfellowshipping of our family is not bad enough, loyalty to Jehovah may mean we even have to endure reproach. We may be hurting because, 'I can't, can't talk to my family member."
(time mark 2:41)


....................


What really amazes me is that the organization refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever for a member becoming "wicked." Yet it does refuse to, and even tells its members refuse to as well. From the video:

"Now we're gonna mention three things NOT to do, and two of them are games not to play.

The first one is, don't play the blame game. Resist self-blame. We may think that we're at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped . . it's because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.

Avoid the "if only games." "If only we would have preached more, if only I would have talked to them more." "If only we would have done more in the organization. If only. . .If only . . . Don't do that to ourselves
"


It's as if every mother, father, and JW preacher knew exactly how to get through to their children and other members, and actually did so. Think that's true? I don't. I've never heard a JW preacher speak, but I have heard a fair number of other Christian ministers, several of whom were so abysmal they couldn't convince a soaking wet dog to come in out of the rain. Thing is, from time to time we all fail in our relationships with others, and despite the JW philosophy, it isn't always the other guy's fault. Sometimes it's our own, in whole or in part. As willing to listen as a Jehovah's Witness may be it's only reasonable to acknowledge the possible failure of parents and preachers to get through. We don't all come with the same set of responsive abilities. Some of us simply have to be approached from another angle before the message sinks in. So for the sake of those Jehovah's Witnesses who are on the brink of becoming one of the "wicked," as well as their families, I think it would be nice if the organization changed their blame game and acknowledged the part it plays in the failures among its membership.


SO: Do you think I have a point here or not?

.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #171

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:09 pm
tam wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:09 pm Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:52 pm
tam wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:01 pm Peace again to you all,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:17 am
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:24 pm
So no matter what Jesus said, onewithhim, it absolutely must fit JW theology...doesn't it?
We believe our theology agrees entirely with what Jesus taught and,
So says most everyone in most every sect of Christendom.


tammy
But any overview of what most every sect of Christendom DOES shows us that they are NOT following Jesus' teachings.


As does an overview of your religion (see above and previous posts).
They ALL fail in one or more issues.


As does yours.
Most of them will go to war, won't they? Jesus said to LOVE our enemies (Matthew 5:44). Jesus said to be NO PART of the world. (John 17:16)
Religion is also part of this world.

(and there are other sects that do not go to war)
Most sects of Christendom are involved in politics. Jesus said we must love his Father and sanctify His name (Matthew 6:9,10; Matthew 22:37). Do ANY religions do this? There is much more, but you can eliminate religious sects from being Christ's followers by applying just the differences I have listed above.
Including your own.

(and there are other sects not involved in politics)


Peace again.
What are the sects that don't join their nation's army? What are the religions that are not part of the world and do not get involved in politics?


Christadelphians was the first one that popped up on google when I did a search. I'm sure there are others. I don't know what name they recognize for God (if any), but since "Jehovah" is not accurate either, that is kind of a moot point.

That being said, I think you are overlooking your own point:
They ALL fail in one or more issues.
Not just the issues a religion lists as important. Anyone can create - in their OWN favor - a list of issues that define the "true religion". The RCC does the same thing, if you recall the past conversations that we have had with RightReason.


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #172

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to tam in post #171]
What they say and what is the truth are two different things.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #173

Post by tam »

Peace again,
onewithhim wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:48 pm [Replying to tam in post #171]
What they say and what is the truth are two different things.
Oh, I could not agree more. And I think those are very pertinent words for this thread.


Peace again to you, owh.
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #174

Post by tam »

Peace again to you all,

I just want to add for anyone who may need to hear it...

Remember what Peter asked? When Christ asked if they (the apostles) wanted to leave Him too?

Lord TO WHOM shall we go? YOU have the words of eternal life.


Peter did not ask to WHERE shall we go. He asked to WHOM. And that WHOM is Christ.

Not a religion. Not other men.

Christ.

Christ is the One with the words of eternal life; Christ is Himself the LIFE.


Religion tries to convince you that you cannot come to Christ (or God) without them (the religion). That is FALSE. That is a LIE. I know this for 100% certainty, because I came to my Lord (my Father drew me to Him), and I learn from Him.

You cannot come to the Father (to God) except through Christ, true. But you can come directly to Christ, and listen to HIM. Follow Him. Remain in His Word. Keep His commands.


"...but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” John 4:14

"Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." Matt 11:28

“If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink." John 7:37



May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear and get a sense of the truth of these things from THE Truth (Christ Jaheshua). And may anyone who wishes and anyone who thirsts, also hear as the Spirit and the bride say TO YOU, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of LIFE!"


Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #175

Post by JehovahsWitness »

I take it we have finished with accusations that it is impossible to leave Jehovahs Witnesses without being shunned, since I have demonstrated that that is entirely possible.

Obviously, people that deny that Christ built a church made up of believers cannot accept the expulsion of individuals from that church; one cannot be put out of a house that doesnt exist. Where and what that true church is, is NOT the point of this thread; that the Christian church would have those that judge behaviours within it and expulse those that do not conform, is.





JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DISFELLOWSHIPPING/SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #176

Post by 2timothy316 »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:49 am I take it we have finished with accusations that it is impossible to leave Jehovahs Witnesses without being shunned, since I have demonstrated that that is entirely possible.
I left the Witnesses for 18 years and wasn't shunned. I just stopped associating with Witnesses thus didn't have any close friends that were Witnesses but that was my choice. So not only is it possible to leave and not be shunned but I am proof as I lived it.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #177

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:38 pm It must fit with the other Scriptures. JW theology follows ALL Scriptures, not just cherry-picked ones.
Ok, so let me chime in for a bit on this..so, onewithhim...

“I am the bread of life.r 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”

Emphasis: "Anyone".

Can you please tell me who exactly is Jesus speaking of when he said "anyone"?
Venni Vetti Vecci!!

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #178

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:38 am I left the Witnesses for 18 years and wasn't shunned. I just stopped associating with Witnesses thus didn't have any close friends that were Witnesses but that was my choice. So not only is it possible to leave and not be shunned but I am proof as I lived it.
And that means what?

I am sure that there were some catholic young men that weren't sexually abused, but that says nothing about the ones who were, does it?
Venni Vetti Vecci!!

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #179

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:49 am I take it we have finished with accusations that it is impossible to leave Jehovahs Witnesses without being shunned, since I have demonstrated that that is entirely possible.
No one said that it is impossible, we are saying that it happens whenever and wherever it happens...you and onewithhim almost seem hesitant to admit that it happens at all, and this is clearly not the case when you talk to exwitnesses.
Venni Vetti Vecci!!

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #180

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

tam wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:10 pm Peace again to you all,

I just want to add for anyone who may need to hear it...

Remember what Peter asked? When Christ asked if they (the apostles) wanted to leave Him too?

Lord TO WHOM shall we go? YOU have the words of eternal life.


Peter did not ask to WHERE shall we go. He asked to WHOM. And that WHOM is Christ.

Not a religion. Not other men.

Christ.

Christ is the One with the words of eternal life; Christ is Himself the LIFE.


Religion tries to convince you that you cannot come to Christ (or God) without them (the religion). That is FALSE. That is a LIE. I know this for 100% certainty, because I came to my Lord (my Father drew me to Him), and I learn from Him.

You cannot come to the Father (to God) except through Christ, true. But you can come directly to Christ, and listen to HIM. Follow Him. Remain in His Word. Keep His commands.


"...but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” John 4:14

"Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." Matt 11:28

“If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink." John 7:37

May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear and get a sense of the truth of these things from THE Truth (Christ Jaheshua). And may anyone who wishes and anyone who thirsts, also hear as the Spirit and the bride say TO YOU, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of LIFE!"

Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Exactly. We have no NT verse, chapter, or book telling us that we must belong to any organization...all fingers point to Christ and Christ only.

Yet we have, some 2000 years later, this "organization" claiming that they are God's chosen organization, and that salvation is through them!!

Wait a minute, what??
Venni Vetti Vecci!!

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