Born Again?

[Zzyzx]

.
Born Again?

Going to church for 1 week or 50 years doesn't make anybody a Christian. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN from above. They may be sincere in thinking they were once Christians, but if they didn't have the born-again experience and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit to the degree that they knew it was real, then I don't believe they were ever real Christians.

Is ER speaking for Christians generally, or is this a reflection of the beliefs of some sects or individuals?

In Christianity, born again means rebirth — namely, spiritual birth into the family of God with Jesus Christ as personal Lord and savior. This is contrasted with the first birth everyone experiences in the flesh (physical world). In the Bible, Jesus stated that only those who are born-again shall see Heaven - "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3).

The term is frequently used by Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Pentecostal and some Mainline branches of Protestant Christianity. It is sometimes associated with non-denominational individuals, groups and churches.

Outside of Christianity, the term "born again" is occasionally used to describe beliefs characterised by renewal, resurgence or return.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again_Christianity

It appears as though only certain sects place great emphasis upon "born again". Does that mean that all others are "not Real Christians"?

They would have never left the faith.

Is it true that once a person is "born again" they "NEVER leave the faith"?

How can anyone be certain that they or someone else is "born again" and will never leave the faith?

I have grave reservations about the legitimacy of so many people around here claiming to be former Christians, for the same reason I mention above.

Can the clear statements by members about being Former Christians be credibly dismissed with "I have greave reservations" by someone who knows nothing about the other person's situation? Or is that a presumptuous platitude?

[myth-one.com]

I have provided scripture
that no one died innocent (barring Jesus of course).

No you have not. You provided a verse which states that all have sinned:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12)

One can both sin and be innocent of any sin at the same time.

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

Sinful acts committed before God gave us laws forbidding those acts, are not counted as sins. Newborns have no law because it has not been explained to and understood by them.

There is evidence that this innocence of children applied to Jesus Christ also:

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. (Isaiah 7:14-16)

Suppose that Mary, Joseph, and Jesus are eating breakfast and Joseph instructs Jesus to stop playing with His food. If Jesus continues playing with His food, He has sinned by violating one of the Ten Commandments:

Honor thy father and thy mother... (Exodus 20:12)

However, if Jesus is four months of age at the time, it is not a sin, because sin is knowingly transgressing one of God's laws. Since a six-month-old baby does not understand His father's request, it is not a sin.

Or is it, InTheFlesh?

[InTheFlesh]

You are dancing around
but where is the verse I requested?

Job.4
[7] Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?

[micatala]

You are dancing around
but where is the verse I requested?

Job.4
[7] Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?

Your refusal to directly address myth-ones argument and your quoting of other verses serves to show two things.

One is that the Bible seems to be inconsistent on this matter. Also, you are quoting only verses which fit in with your view while ignoring others. You either need to reconcile the verses or acknowledge that there are different biblically supported positions on this matter.





You also completely blew off my baby analogy. Do you seriously believe that there has never been a baby who was born and then died a minute later?

[InTheFlesh]

I believe that no one has died innocent.

[myth-one.com]

I believe that no one has died innocent.

With the exception of Jesus?

I have provided scripture
that no one died innocent (barring Jesus of course).

________________________________________________________________________________

All I know about you for a fact is that you come down against Santa. And that's OK, I respect your beliefs. From your posts you do appear to have some deep religious beliefs. So what do you believe is the "future" of infants who die in sin after say breathing their first breath? (I only ask your beliefs with no requirement of supporting evidence.)

Another question is what sin do you believe they committed? Or perhaps you do not even know. I would understand that as the scripture you quoted only states that all have sinned. What would your best guess be as to the sins which could be committed during a few minutes of precious life?

[InTheFlesh]

I believe that no one has died innocent.

With the exception of Jesus?

Yes, Jesus being the exception.

I have provided scripture
that no one died innocent (barring Jesus of course).

________________________________________________________________________________

All I know about you for a fact is that you come down against Santa. And that's OK, I respect your beliefs.

When did I come down against Santa?
I don't recall ever speaking about Santa.

From your posts you do appear to have some deep religious beliefs. So what do you believe is the "future" of infants who die in sin after say breathing their first breath? (I only ask your beliefs with no requirement of supporting evidence.)

My belief about them
is the same like any other soul.
I don't know which get carried
and which get buried.
The Lord knows the hearts.
But I do know the baby is born with sin
because it is capable of sinning.
Another words,
if the baby is able to have an evil thought
then sin is present in the baby.
And sin brings forth death.

Another question is what sin do you believe they committed? Or perhaps you do not even know. I would understand that as the scripture you quoted only states that all have sinned. What would your best guess be as to the sins which could be committed during a few minutes of precious life?

The Sin of Birth!
I believe sin is in their mind.
Since it is born with guilt
a baby cannot die innocent..

Jer
[14] Cursed be the day wherein I was born: let not the day wherein my mother bare me be blessed.
[15] Cursed be the man who brought tidings to my father, saying, A man child is born unto thee; making him very glad.
[16] And let that man be as the cities which the LORD overthrew, and repented not: and let him hear the cry in the morning, and the shouting at noontide;
[17] Because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.
[18] Wherefore came I forth out of the womb to see labour and sorrow, that my days should be consumed with shame?

[myth-one.com]

When did I come down against Santa?
I don't recall ever speaking about Santa.

Face your terminal while viewing one of your postings. To your left under "InTheFlesh" you claim that you are not a believer in Santa:

[Does not believe in Santa]

Another question is what sin do you believe they (babies) committed?

The Sin of Birth!.

But Jesus Christ was born:

Now when Jesus was born in Bethelehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, . . . (Matthew 2:1)

If being born is a sin, then Jesus Christ was not sinless! Consequently, He could not pay the penalty for our sins and become our Savior!

If what you say is true, we are all doomed! Even us Christians!

[InTheFlesh]

I told you that Jesus is the exception.
His conception was not natural.
It was a manifestation of the Spirit.
He was not born in sin.

Time to stop beating this dead horse!

[myth-one.com]

Time to stop beating this dead horse!

Whoa Nellie! Not so fast.

I told you that Jesus is the exception.
His conception was not natural.

Hundreds of thousands of conceptions today are unnatural in that they do not involve female sexual activity. Doesn't this remove the sinful process of lust from those conceptions?

In vitro fertilisation (IVF) is a process by which egg cells are fertilized by sperm outside the womb.

Are these babies conceived outside of sin -- like Jesus?

[InTheFlesh]

Unnatural meaning by the Holy Spirit.
Can you say the same for the other
thousands of unnatural births?

You are the one presenting the sin of lust.
I did not.
If a husband and wife have sex
and have a baby.
There is no sin involved.
The bed is undefiled.
But the baby is still born with sin.
Guilty by association.