JW organization.

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 130 by onewithhim]

Have it your way

Deuteronomy 33:2
And he said: “The Lord came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came with ten thousands of saints; From His right hand Came a fiery law for them.

[polonius]

Is this statement accurate?

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... estaments/

“…Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the entire Bible is “inspired of God and beneficial.� (2 Timothy 3:16) That includes both the Old Testament and the New Testament, as they are commonly called. Generally, Jehovah’s Witnesses refer to these sections of the Bible as the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures. In this way, we avoid giving the impression that some parts of the Bible are outdated or irrelevant.�

Opinions?


JW

My opinion is that is accurate factual information. We do indeed believe the entire bible to be God's Inspired word, yes.

JW also posted:

There is a difference between something being "inspired" and something being without error. Jehovah inspired men to write down certain thoughts, but they used their own words and their own methods of writing. He didn't dictate every single word.

RESPONSE: No, I’m afraid not. If a claimed divinely inspired writing contains error, then we really only have two alternatives:

(1) God inspired or allowed those errors.

(2) Parts of the Bible are not inspired by God.

QUESTION: Does the bible reader get to select what they consider inspired or not inspired by God?

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 106 by JehovahsWitness]

No, come to think of it, I'm really not done at all. Fact is, the Watchtower Society is an anti-intellectual, anti-social cult, like Jonestown, Waco, scientology. Like all cults, it thrives by indoctrinating it members into believing the world is the enemy, all run by the Devil, so that the only place they feel safe is in the cult. And, like any cult, it managed to worm its way into the history books by hiding behind the First Amendment. But it can't hide from the eye of critical scholarly inquiry. It is the duty of all religious scholars, of which I happen to be one, to expose such cults as the destructive forces they really are in people's lives. And I'm up for doing that 24/7.

[Replying to post 110 by postroad]

Yes, but you have to remember you are dealing here with a notorious anti-social, anti-intellectual cult, actually one of the most hated of all religious cults. So you can well expect to hear all kinds of strange, delusional thinking.

Moderator Comment


These may not be personal attacks but they are gross generalisations made against Jehovah's Witness and we have several active members here that belong to that organisation. Please refrain from making such inflammatory and offensive blanket statements on these forums.

Please review the Rules.

______________

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[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 130 by onewithhim]

Have it your way

Deuteronomy 33:2
And he said: “The Lord came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came with ten thousands of saints; From His right hand Came a fiery law for them.

You have made me really examine the subject, and that is good. I have not understood all there is to understand about "the holy ones." Because of your directing me to Deut.33:2, I have looked further into it. I am learning that "holy ones" could be those "set apart" for the service of God, even on the earth with an earthly hope. Psalm 34:9 says: "O fear the LORD, you His saints; For to those who fear Him there is no want."

So I must have been misunderstanding the full range of "holy ones." Now I can look at Matthew 27:52 and have a better understanding. The "saints," or "holy ones" could be any of the righteous people who had worshipped Jehovah in ancient times and had been "set apart" for sacred service (like Aaron) and were buried outside of Jerusalem.

Thank you for helping me to clear that up in my mind.

.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 134 by onewithhim]

Great! So now they can be raised like Lazerus?

[onewithhim]

Is this statement accurate?

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... estaments/

“…Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the entire Bible is “inspired of God and beneficial.� (2 Timothy 3:16) That includes both the Old Testament and the New Testament, as they are commonly called. Generally, Jehovah’s Witnesses refer to these sections of the Bible as the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures. In this way, we avoid giving the impression that some parts of the Bible are outdated or irrelevant.�

Opinions?


JW

My opinion is that is accurate factual information. We do indeed believe the entire bible to be God's Inspired word, yes.

JW also posted:

There is a difference between something being "inspired" and something being without error. Jehovah inspired men to write down certain thoughts, but they used their own words and their own methods of writing. He didn't dictate every single word.

RESPONSE: No, I’m afraid not. If a claimed divinely inspired writing contains error, then we really only have two alternatives:

(1) God inspired or allowed those errors.

(2) Parts of the Bible are not inspired by God.

QUESTION: Does the bible reader get to select what they consider inspired or not inspired by God?

ONEWITHHIM ANSWERS:

Polonius, I have already told you that JW didn't post that statement about a difference between something being inspired and something being without error. It was me. You keep saying that JW said it.

God did not inspire errors or dictate them. He inspired men to write a certain thought, time and again. They wrote it down to the best of their abilities, but surely included some of their own embellishments now and again. The main point is always there, however.

Take Genesis 3:15. What would Moses (who most people think wrote Genesis) do with THAT? It surely was far from his understanding. He wrote it down to the best of his ability. Who cares that he got it backward?

To Satan: "He [the seed of the 'woman'] shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise him on the heel." (NASB)

Satan would "bruise" Christ "on the heel," meaning a non-death-dealing blow. This would happen first, but Moses puts it last. Actually the last event would be Satan's destruction, which was referred to as a "bruise on the head," a death-dealing blow. Should we throw out the whole idea because Moses got it out of order? Why would we? We know, from God's inspiration, that Satan would get the best of Christ---temporarily---and then Christ would eliminate Satan for good. To dismiss Genesis 3:15 as meaningless because an imperfect man didn't get it totally right in sequence, would be ridiculous.


.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 134 by onewithhim]

Great! So now they can be raised like Lazerus?

Yes, the ancient "holy ones" will be resurrected along with Lazarus.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 125 by polonius.advice]

Yes, true. However, Today, there is much talk about "nones," individuals who are deeply interested in theology, but have little or no interest in an affiliation with any organized religious denomination. I think the problem is that to many churches have become rather boring social clubs with little or no real intellectual stimulation.
However, I am concerned about a wholly different matter with the Watchtower Society. Scholars, both religious and secular, view it largely as an anti-intellectual cult. That may seem a harsh thing to day, but it well fits the facts. The Society has had a long history of promoting anti-intellectual propaganda. Hence, Charles Taze Russell wrote, " I advise all Christians not to sent their children to college or universities; for if they do, they will risk a great deal through infidelity and unbelief, and they will do their children a positive injury." That same anti-intellectual raving is echoed time and again in the Watchtower literature. In the 1969. Mar. 15, p.171, issue of the "Watchtower," we read, " Many schools have now student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them brainwash your children with the Devil's propaganda." "Kingdom Ministry," 2011, asks, "Are they (your children) prepared for the pressure they will receive to pursue higher education, date, use alcohol and drugs?" "Watchtower, 2008, asks, " What, though, of higher education received in a university? This is widely accepted as vital to success. Yet, many who pursue such education end up with their minds filled with harmful propaganda. Such education wastes valuable years that could be spend in Jehovah's service." On and on the propaganda goes, wit the theme that higher education wastes time, shows a lack of faith. The Society represents the lowest level of economic income and education because its goal is to discourage individuals from developing the critical, analytical skills and tools they need to be successful in modern-day society. Like any cult, the Society's goal is to hang onto its members by demonizing all the rest of the world, so that they only place one can feel safe is in the cult.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 136 by onewithhim]

Some major qualifiers need to be introduced here as to which Bible we are talking about. The Society has produced it s own version of the Bible, the NWT. In point of fact, it has been carefully reviewed by major biblical scholars, found to be a highly corrupted translation, and therefore it is no real Bible at all. I have discussed this matter in other posts, don't want to repeat myself here. I'm just pointing out the need to be more specific as to what Bible is under discussion.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 134 by onewithhim]

Great! So now they can be raised like Lazerus?

Yes, the ancient "holy ones" will be resurrected along with Lazarus.

Agreed. I understand that the word "saints" is just what other translations refer to as "holy ones". The ancients such as Abraham, David, Moses will all be resurrected but in the future.