Born Again?

[Zzyzx]

.
Born Again?

Going to church for 1 week or 50 years doesn't make anybody a Christian. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN from above. They may be sincere in thinking they were once Christians, but if they didn't have the born-again experience and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit to the degree that they knew it was real, then I don't believe they were ever real Christians.

Is ER speaking for Christians generally, or is this a reflection of the beliefs of some sects or individuals?

In Christianity, born again means rebirth — namely, spiritual birth into the family of God with Jesus Christ as personal Lord and savior. This is contrasted with the first birth everyone experiences in the flesh (physical world). In the Bible, Jesus stated that only those who are born-again shall see Heaven - "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3).

The term is frequently used by Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Pentecostal and some Mainline branches of Protestant Christianity. It is sometimes associated with non-denominational individuals, groups and churches.

Outside of Christianity, the term "born again" is occasionally used to describe beliefs characterised by renewal, resurgence or return.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again_Christianity

It appears as though only certain sects place great emphasis upon "born again". Does that mean that all others are "not Real Christians"?

They would have never left the faith.

Is it true that once a person is "born again" they "NEVER leave the faith"?

How can anyone be certain that they or someone else is "born again" and will never leave the faith?

I have grave reservations about the legitimacy of so many people around here claiming to be former Christians, for the same reason I mention above.

Can the clear statements by members about being Former Christians be credibly dismissed with "I have greave reservations" by someone who knows nothing about the other person's situation? Or is that a presumptuous platitude?

[InTheFlesh]

DRS believes innocent children get a free pass to heaven:
drs wrote:
It is very simple, if they are innocent, they will go to heaven.


Whoever died being innocent?

I don't understand why people
assume someone innocent
because of age?
Is this not age discrimination?

[myth-one.com]

DRS believes innocent children get a free pass to heaven:
drs wrote:
It is very simple, if they are innocent, they will go to heaven.


Whoever died being innocent?

I don't understand why people
assume someone innocent
because of age?
Is this not age discrimination?

Here's how that works:

Sin is the transgression of God's laws, or commandments:

For sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4)

However, to commit a sin, one must first recognize that the act is a sin:

To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

In their innocent years, implies that a child is not sufficiently of age, maturity, or education to recognize sinful actions. That is, they have no law. They are said to be "innocent" or sinless. So it is tied to age, but the age may vary from child to child. You may also hear it said that a child reaches the "age of accountability."

The theological reasoning is: The wages of sin is death, but innocent children have never knowingly sinned, thus they do not have to pay the wages of sin; and go instantly to heaven for eternity upon death.

Ask any Christian clergyman for verification that souls of deceased innocent children are presently in heaven. I emailed the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association asking where the five murdered Yates children were. They responded that they did not know where the remains of the children were, then continued to state:

What is more important, however, is where the souls of these children are. God, in His mercy and love, watches over little children who are taken by death, and they go to be with Him in heaven.

Ms. Yates' understood the theology perfectly.
________________________________________________________________________________

Our legal system recognizes the "innocence" of most children, the mentally ill, and perhaps others who do not recognize that their acts are crimes.

[InTheFlesh]

You did not answer the question.
Who ever died being innocent?

If one is conceived in sin
how can one die innocent?

[myth-one.com]

You did not answer the question.
Who ever died being innocent?

If one is conceived in sin
how can one die innocent?

No matter how one is conceived, one is not held responsible for sin until they knowingly commit a sin. Sin is the transgression of God's laws, or commandments:

For sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4)

However, to commit a sin, one must first recognize that the act is a sin:

... sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

If a parent tells an infant to stop playing in his food, and the infant continues playing in his food, he violates the law to honor thy father and thy mother. But is is not a sin since an infant does not understand that law. If that infant then died at that moment, he would die innocent of any sin.
________________________________________________________________________________

Here is a biblical example of the innocence of "children:"

When the children of Israel rebelled against the commandments of God after departing Egypt, God let them wander in the wilderness so that the sinful adults would die off and not see the Promised Land. However, those who were children and had no knowledge of good and evil were allowed to take possession of the Promised Land:

Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it. (Deuteronomy 1:39)

Incredible, there is further indication that these "children" were everyone under the age of twenty:

For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the lord... (Joshua 5:6)

These "men of war" are defined in the book of Numbers:

From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies. (Numbers 1:3)

This probably has something to do with our age of 21 defining "adulthood."

[kayky]

You did not answer the question.
Who ever died being innocent?

If one is conceived in sin
how can one die innocent?

Children are conceived by sexual intercourse (or an adequate facsimile thereof). Are you saying that sex is a sin?

[Goat]

You did not answer the question.
Who ever died being innocent?

If one is conceived in sin
how can one die innocent?

Children are conceived by sexual intercourse (or an adequate facsimile thereof). Are you saying that sex is a sin?

It seems to be a standard Chritian theology of original sin. That is, however, directly against some passages in the OT.

Ezek.
18:19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him

[InTheFlesh]

You did not answer the question.
Who ever died being innocent?

If one is conceived in sin
how can one die innocent?

Children are conceived by sexual intercourse (or an adequate facsimile thereof). Are you saying that sex is a sin?

No, the bed is undefiled.

Rom.5
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom.6
[23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Job.4
[7] Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?

[myth-one.com]

Are you saying that sex is a sin?

No, the bed is undefiled.

Well, apparently not all beds:

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:15)

Sex is like other needs of mankind, in that it contains both good (even great) and bad (some really bad) choices which can result in good and bad consequences.

[InTheFlesh]

myth,

In context of the conversation,
I was saying that sex is not a sin
between a husband and a wife.
But this does not mean
the child is born innocent.

[myth-one.com]

myth,

In context of the conversation,
I was saying that sex is not a sin
between a husband and a wife.
But this does not mean
the child is born innocent.

Can you give any evidence that a child is not born innocent?