If the Trinity is an eternal truth..

[Elijah John]

If the Trinity is an eternal truth, and God was always Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (even well before the incarnation), why isn't that doctrine found in the "Old" Testament, the Hebrew Bible?

Instead we have "Hear O Israel, YHVH our God, YHVH is One". (Deuteronomy 6.4) And that proclamation was to be recited by YHVH's people every day in prayer, multiple times.

[earl]

polonius,
Jo.5.17-19The Jews wanted to kill him
Jo.10-30

[earl]

I think where the problem lies in interpreting the Trinity is who's who in the Trinity and who is not.
This sounds odd to say but a deeper investigation would reveal who is spiritually what and who is actually what.This will require lots of time.
This would involve questions like ,
Is Jesus actually God?
Is Is Jesus spiritually God?Is Jesus the actual Word?
Is Jesus spiritually the Word?
But not now,it angers some .

[earl]

This may help some ,But Ill get blasted for it .
Is Jesus a begotten son of God- actually yes
Is Jesus God-Spiritually yes
Is Jesus equal to God-Spiritually yes ,actually no
Is Jesus the Word-spiritually yes,actually no
Did the Word become flesh-spiritually yes,actually no
Is the Father greater than all-spiritually yes,actually yes
Is Jesus the truth and the way-spiritually yes,actually yes
If you see Jesus have you seen the Father?spiritually yes,actually no
If you hear Jesus have you heard God's voice?spiritually yes,actually no.Jesus never said if you hear my voice you have heard the Father.

[polonius]

If the Trinity is an eternal truth, and God was always Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (even well before the incarnation), why isn't that doctrine found in the "Old" Testament, the Hebrew Bible?

Instead we have "Hear O Israel, YHVH our God, YHVH is One". (Deuteronomy 6.4) And that proclamation was to be recited by YHVH's people every day in prayer, multiple times.

RESPONSE:


Who invented the Trinity doctrine and when was it invented?
By Aisha Brown

“Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and outside the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit – in one divine being.�

[earl]

Inflexible to revelation.
In the past there were a god for everything and a god everywhere you looked. Polytheism .
Then Moses gave the 10 commandments having one God.Monotheism.
The Jews as a whole ,over many centuries,were stuck in tradition,they could not grasp the Trinity concept,much like today.
The Trinity remains a confusion because the amount of revelation on this matter is sparse and scattered in the NT.
With the amount of bickering today about the Trinity concept consider how the confusion would be way back then.
The Aisha Brown author of the previous opinion in the previous post states digressed from oneness of God but at the end of the statement states,one divine being.Go figure.

[onewithhim]

Inflexible to revelation.
In the past there were a god for everything and a god everywhere you looked. Polytheism .
Then Moses gave the 10 commandments having one God.Monotheism.
The Jews as a whole ,over many centuries,were stuck in tradition,they could not grasp the Trinity concept,much like today.
The Trinity remains a confusion because the amount of revelation on this matter is sparse and scattered in the NT.
With the amount of bickering today about the Trinity concept consider how the confusion would be way back then.
The Aisha Brown author of the previous opinion in the previous post states digressed from oneness of God but at the end of the statement states,one divine being.Go figure.

Brown, I think, was just explaining what the Trinity doctrine states. The rest of her paragraph is pretty clear that it is a formulation that took root in the 4th century, far from early pure Christian teaching.


.

[polonius]

The "Trinity" doctrine is a product of the 4th century It's claim has at least one major flaw.

Those who thought it up evidently didn't see what the co-equal claim would mean.

If the three persons of the Blessed Trinity were in fact really coequal, they would be absolutely indistinguishable.

If there are three absolutely co-equal persons, how could you tell them apart? They would be exactly the same!

The early Christians just had to get around the "Hear, O Israel, the Lord is one" biblical infallibility.

[earl]

polonius,
You have described the coequal example well.
And how can we tell them apart?We can't.The indivisibility of the 3 is beyond human understanding but not completely to some and not to those who exist beyond our sight,
high spiritual beings with understanding.This is why the debate goes on .The human mind cannot completely adjust to the spiritual concept of 3 as 1.
If any of us were approached by what we think is a spirit being what or who will we call it? Man's contact with the spirit realm is almost nil.
Is it God,holy spirit ,an angel,or a spirit being unknown ,unrevealed to us ?
Can we distinguish between the comforter and the holy spirit?
I can't unless I am told who it is.
But those who are in the spirit realm sure would with their spiritual eyes.
So the Trinity is a difficulty with only human eyes and human mind to comprehend.
I have not read your counter to the opposition to the Trinity and why.

[onewithhim]

polonius,
You have described the coequal example well.
And how can we tell them apart?We can't.The indivisibility of the 3 is beyond human understanding but not completely to some and not to those who exist beyond our sight,
high spiritual beings with understanding.This is why the debate goes on .The human mind cannot completely adjust to the spiritual concept of 3 as 1.

That is because it is not true. Understanding God is not so complicated. He made it rather simple throughout the Bible. There is one God and his name is YHWH. Very simple! Is there anything else to contradict that? NO. Jesus reenforces that fact by everything he says, two of those examples are below:

To the Father YHWH: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3)

"You have seen the fulfillment of Isaiah 61:1,2 today, in me." (Luke 4:18-21) He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself as the one anointed by YHWH and sent by YHWH, thus showing clearly that he was not equal to YHWH. If he was equal, he would not have had to be SENT or even ANOINTED by another Person.


.

[tigger2]

Earl wrote to Polonius:

I have not read your counter to the opposition to the Trinity and why.

Opposition to the trinity is found throughout the Scriptures. One small example is found in the 'Clear Challenges for the Trinity Doctrine' thread found in this forum.

Maybe you can be the first to defend these specific challenges.