If the Trinity is an eternal truth, and God was always Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (even well before the incarnation), why isn't that doctrine found in the "Old" Testament, the Hebrew Bible?
Instead we have "Hear O Israel, YHVH our God, YHVH is One". (Deuteronomy 6.4) And that proclamation was to be recited by YHVH's people every day in prayer, multiple times.
If the Trinity is an eternal truth..
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Elijah John
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If the Trinity is an eternal truth..
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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onewithhim
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Post #102
Earl, scholars today are in agreement that I John 5:7 was inserted at a much later date than when the Apostle John wrote that letter. It is a corruption. It was put in there by someone who wanted to back up the Trinity. It is a biased insertion.earl wrote: onewithhim,
1 Jo.5.7 (record,witness-same thing)
I said this equals 1 God not 3.
I did not use the word person,some do.
However,by indivisibility and undivided the 3 are 1.We cannot take 1 and make 3 ,then we would have gods.
The 3 have names,Father,Son,Spirit.
Tertullian,you probably know, coined Trinity and it seems to have stuck ever since describing this conjoint nature of the 3.
The passage should read:
"For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement." (I John 5:7,8)
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onewithhim
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Post #103
[Replying to post 99 by earl]
Earl....you didn't answer the second part of my post #97. I would appreciate it if you would.
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Earl....you didn't answer the second part of my post #97. I would appreciate it if you would.
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onewithhim
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Post #104
Earl, check out the thread "Clear Challenges To the Trinity Doctrine" on this forum. It has comments on John 1:1. There are other threads also that I will look up.earl wrote: onewithhim,
Here is a partial reference to the Trinity.
Jo.1.1 The Word or the Son-same thing.The Word was "with "and the Word "was"
I'm sure you know this one already.
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Post #105
onewithhim,
You stated an alternate to 1 Jo 5-7
Who is the spirit,water,blood?Who are these characters?They have to be conscious to agree?
Is this not a Trinity?
Your alternate verse states they agree.
Is not agree the same as harmonize?
But this is not my intent to make a debate out of.
I do agree the Bible is not a well preserved document in that you produce another script.There is the possibility the over and over copying of these books of the Bible can compromise the accuracy.The possibility exists that an earlier copy of the one you may draw from could have said something other .They then did not have the luxury of a printing press .I really love this spell check too, they didn't have either.But the point I make is there is a Trinity of 3 named characters.Their harmony or indivisibility establishes 1 God.
Another statement Jesus made was when he said God is Spirit.And I already have mentioned Jo.1.1.
It is their harmony or indivisibility that makes them 1.
You stated an alternate to 1 Jo 5-7
Who is the spirit,water,blood?Who are these characters?They have to be conscious to agree?
Is this not a Trinity?
Your alternate verse states they agree.
Is not agree the same as harmonize?
But this is not my intent to make a debate out of.
I do agree the Bible is not a well preserved document in that you produce another script.There is the possibility the over and over copying of these books of the Bible can compromise the accuracy.The possibility exists that an earlier copy of the one you may draw from could have said something other .They then did not have the luxury of a printing press .I really love this spell check too, they didn't have either.But the point I make is there is a Trinity of 3 named characters.Their harmony or indivisibility establishes 1 God.
Another statement Jesus made was when he said God is Spirit.And I already have mentioned Jo.1.1.
It is their harmony or indivisibility that makes them 1.
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onewithhim
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Post #106
[Replying to post 104 by earl]
That verse that you quote is not a part of the early manuscripts at all. It was added LATER. John did not write it.
I thought you are a newbie to these threads, but you are not. I went back to find good threads that challenge the Trinity doctrine, and lo-and-behold, there you are on at least one of them, back in 2017. You already know the truth about the Trinity, but you keep on trying to affirm it. I have nothing more to say to someone who knows the truth but keeps trying to beat it down.
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That verse that you quote is not a part of the early manuscripts at all. It was added LATER. John did not write it.
I thought you are a newbie to these threads, but you are not. I went back to find good threads that challenge the Trinity doctrine, and lo-and-behold, there you are on at least one of them, back in 2017. You already know the truth about the Trinity, but you keep on trying to affirm it. I have nothing more to say to someone who knows the truth but keeps trying to beat it down.
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Post #107
onewithhim,Reply to post 97
Jesus spoke in 2 mannerisms.
one is actuals-meaning exactly what he actually said.
Two is spiritually-meaning one must apply understanding to interpret.
Like this-Jesus said ,if you have seen me you have seen the Father.
He also said my Father is greater than I.
Which one is a spiritual meaning and which one is an actual meaning?
But this way off on another tangent.
Jesus spoke in 2 mannerisms.
one is actuals-meaning exactly what he actually said.
Two is spiritually-meaning one must apply understanding to interpret.
Like this-Jesus said ,if you have seen me you have seen the Father.
He also said my Father is greater than I.
Which one is a spiritual meaning and which one is an actual meaning?
But this way off on another tangent.
When did the Trinity teaching develope?
Post #109The early Christians remained very devote Temple worshipping Jews until about 82 AD.
At this time it began to be taught that Jesus in addition to being the Messiah(who was to be human) was in fact also God.
This resulted in the Christians being condemned as agnostics (minim) and expelled from the Jewish synagogues . This is recorded in John's gospel
See, also, the Jewish 12th Benediction.
At this time it began to be taught that Jesus in addition to being the Messiah(who was to be human) was in fact also God.
This resulted in the Christians being condemned as agnostics (minim) and expelled from the Jewish synagogues . This is recorded in John's gospel
See, also, the Jewish 12th Benediction.
