heb 2:
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Many today use this verse of scripture to teach that Jesus christ died for every single person in the world, that is he tasted death for all who ever lived.
But is this what this scripture teaches ? What does the word taste mean ?
1) to taste, to try the flavour of
2) to taste
a) i.e. perceive the flavour of, partake of, enjoy
b) to feel, make trial of, experience
3) to take food, eat, to take nourishment, eat
I dont believe taste here is describing his passion or suffering , or shedding of his blood. I think that is expressed clearly in earlier portion of the verse
Quote:
who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death
Therefore why the repetition ? Hence a better reading of this most misused verse would be..
That christ has savoured death for every man , that is death has lost its sting , saints Gods covenant people no longer need fear death..as in heb 2
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
So instead of this being a verse that is misapplied to teach universal atonement..it is actually a verse to minister comfort to the covenant children..
1 thess 4:
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Does this make sense ?
Jesus tasted death for every man
Moderator: Moderators
-
Salt Agent
- Apprentice
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:36 pm
- Location: Poland, Central Europe
Post #11
Hello, Byrofrcs.
You make a very good point friend -- the part about consulting the original language, Greek. That goes back to what i mentioned earlier about
eisegesis-- of reading into the text something that is neither stated or implied.
This is especially true and relevent when some texts appear to contradict-- often it is a translation issue, or the fact that some words and concepts don't translate at all into other cultures.
The greatest example of this is the verse commonly taken and used as a support verse by Calvinists, where Paul is actually quoting from the Old testament, which was Hebrew. "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated". - which they use to support the notion that God hates some people, and then extrapolate that support that those were the ones he predestined to Hell.
When we look at the Hebrew, the word means "Love less," or "love to a lesser degree" and is a literary device to show contrast. Hebrew has other words that the writers could have chosen if they had intended to convey that God didn't love everyone.
In this particular case, however, the verse in question, that Beloved uses, there is not contradiction, but instead, it actually confirms and reinforces what other multiple verses clearly state explicitly-- That Christ died for, paid the penalty for, provided the means for salvation for, every man -- NOT THAT ALL WOULD BE, OR ARE SAVED, AS BELOVED FALSELY CHARGES.
This is why a good starting point is to simply make a list for and against Limited Atonement, for example, or Universal Salvation, Sinlessness of Mary, Salvation earned by Works, or any other man-made unBiblical notion.
When we have multiple clear passages that not only state Christ died for everyone, but multiple passages in which Christ himself explicitly offers eternal life, living water, salvation, to anyone and everyone, it clearly refutes the UnBiblical notion that He died for some but not for others,
so Beloved and others are left with a dilema....
-- either abandoning Calvinism,
-- providing verses that explicitly state this in the Bible..
-- or else question the meaning of "Died" and "Taste" and "Everyone" and "Whosoever" and "All" and "Cross" and "ransom" such as people who debate what the meaning of "is" is.
-- or simply ignore all questions and start another thread on the same or similar topic, in another forum to avoid the issue.
Cordially,
Salt Agent
You make a very good point friend -- the part about consulting the original language, Greek. That goes back to what i mentioned earlier about
eisegesis-- of reading into the text something that is neither stated or implied.
This is especially true and relevent when some texts appear to contradict-- often it is a translation issue, or the fact that some words and concepts don't translate at all into other cultures.
The greatest example of this is the verse commonly taken and used as a support verse by Calvinists, where Paul is actually quoting from the Old testament, which was Hebrew. "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated". - which they use to support the notion that God hates some people, and then extrapolate that support that those were the ones he predestined to Hell.
When we look at the Hebrew, the word means "Love less," or "love to a lesser degree" and is a literary device to show contrast. Hebrew has other words that the writers could have chosen if they had intended to convey that God didn't love everyone.
In this particular case, however, the verse in question, that Beloved uses, there is not contradiction, but instead, it actually confirms and reinforces what other multiple verses clearly state explicitly-- That Christ died for, paid the penalty for, provided the means for salvation for, every man -- NOT THAT ALL WOULD BE, OR ARE SAVED, AS BELOVED FALSELY CHARGES.
This is why a good starting point is to simply make a list for and against Limited Atonement, for example, or Universal Salvation, Sinlessness of Mary, Salvation earned by Works, or any other man-made unBiblical notion.
When we have multiple clear passages that not only state Christ died for everyone, but multiple passages in which Christ himself explicitly offers eternal life, living water, salvation, to anyone and everyone, it clearly refutes the UnBiblical notion that He died for some but not for others,
so Beloved and others are left with a dilema....
-- either abandoning Calvinism,
-- providing verses that explicitly state this in the Bible..
-- or else question the meaning of "Died" and "Taste" and "Everyone" and "Whosoever" and "All" and "Cross" and "ransom" such as people who debate what the meaning of "is" is.
-- or simply ignore all questions and start another thread on the same or similar topic, in another forum to avoid the issue.
Cordially,
Salt Agent
