The nature of God. If Trinune,

[Elijah John]

If, (as Trinitarian apologists suggest) God is Triune and this fact is revealed even in the Old Testament, why didn't God make this clear to Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, etc?

Instead of allowing them to go around believing He is absolutely one.

Why not spell it out that God is supposedly triune, instead of leaving the notion dormant in the Hebrew Bible, awaiting (re?)discovery by future theologians and revisionists?

Instead, after leading His people out of pagan polytheism, God drilled it into his people's head that He is one.

"Hear O Israel, YHVH your God, YHVH is one".

One...not one of many, not three-in-one, simply one.

Why would God do this, if in fact He were "triune"?

[polonius]

[Replying to post 9 by polonius]

Which lines got added to the Bible after the 4th century?

RESPONSE: Here are a few examples.

Example 1 Wikipedia: “Jesus and the woman taken in adultery (often called Pericope Adulterae /pəˈrɪkəpi əˈdʌltəri/,[1] for short) is a passage (pericope) found in the Gospel of John 7:53–8:11

“The pericope [ is not found in most of the early Greek Gospel manuscripts. It is not in P66 or in P75, both of which have been assigned to the late 100s or early 200s, nor in two important manuscripts produced in the early/mid 300s, Sinaiticus and Vaticanus. The first surviving Greek manuscript to contain the pericope is the Latin/Greek diglot Codex Bezae, produced in the 400s or 500s ….�

Example 2 “The Comma Johanneum, also known as the Comma Johannine, is a textual variant in regards to 1 John 5:7-8. 1 John 5:7-8 reads, “For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.�


"With the “comma,� 1 John 5:7-8 reads, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.� If the Comma Johanneum was originally part of 1 John 5:7-8, it would be the clearest and most direct reference to the Trinity in the entire Bible.�

“None of the oldest Greek manuscripts of 1 John contain the comma, and none of the very early church fathers include it when quoting or referencing 1 John 5:7-8. The presence of the Comma Johanneum in Greek manuscripts is actually quite rare until the 15th century A.D. It is primarily found in Latin manuscripts. While some of the Latin manuscripts containing the Comma Johanneum are ancient, the Comma Johanneum did not appear in the original Latin Vulgate written by Jerome.�

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 9 by polonius]

Which lines got added to the Bible after the 4th century?

RESPONSE: Here are a few examples.

Example 1 Wikipedia: “Jesus and the woman taken in adultery (often called Pericope Adulterae /pəˈrɪkəpi əˈdʌltəri/,[1] for short) is a passage (pericope) found in the Gospel of John 7:53–8:11

“The pericope [ is not found in most of the early Greek Gospel manuscripts. It is not in P66 or in P75, both of which have been assigned to the late 100s or early 200s, nor in two important manuscripts produced in the early/mid 300s, Sinaiticus and Vaticanus. The first surviving Greek manuscript to contain the pericope is the Latin/Greek diglot Codex Bezae, produced in the 400s or 500s ….�

Example 2 “The Comma Johanneum, also known as the Comma Johannine, is a textual variant in regards to 1 John 5:7-8. 1 John 5:7-8 reads, “For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.�


"With the “comma,� 1 John 5:7-8 reads, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.� If the Comma Johanneum was originally part of 1 John 5:7-8, it would be the clearest and most direct reference to the Trinity in the entire Bible.�

“None of the oldest Greek manuscripts of 1 John contain the comma, and none of the very early church fathers include it when quoting or referencing 1 John 5:7-8. The presence of the Comma Johanneum in Greek manuscripts is actually quite rare until the 15th century A.D. It is primarily found in Latin manuscripts. While some of the Latin manuscripts containing the Comma Johanneum are ancient, the Comma Johanneum did not appear in the original Latin Vulgate written by Jerome.�

Unfortunately, there's a whole lot more, too. I have bracketed them out with black in my bibles. Mark 16:9-to the end is added later.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 9 by polonius]

Which lines got added to the Bible after the 4th century?

RESPONSE: Here are a few examples.

Example 1 Wikipedia: “Jesus and the woman taken in adultery (often called Pericope Adulterae /pəˈrɪkəpi əˈdʌltəri/,[1] for short) is a passage (pericope) found in the Gospel of John 7:53–8:11

“The pericope [ is not found in most of the early Greek Gospel manuscripts. It is not in P66 or in P75, both of which have been assigned to the late 100s or early 200s, nor in two important manuscripts produced in the early/mid 300s, Sinaiticus and Vaticanus. The first surviving Greek manuscript to contain the pericope is the Latin/Greek diglot Codex Bezae, produced in the 400s or 500s ….�

Example 2 “The Comma Johanneum, also known as the Comma Johannine, is a textual variant in regards to 1 John 5:7-8. 1 John 5:7-8 reads, “For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.�


"With the “comma,� 1 John 5:7-8 reads, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.� If the Comma Johanneum was originally part of 1 John 5:7-8, it would be the clearest and most direct reference to the Trinity in the entire Bible.�

“None of the oldest Greek manuscripts of 1 John contain the comma, and none of the very early church fathers include it when quoting or referencing 1 John 5:7-8. The presence of the Comma Johanneum in Greek manuscripts is actually quite rare until the 15th century A.D. It is primarily found in Latin manuscripts. While some of the Latin manuscripts containing the Comma Johanneum are ancient, the Comma Johanneum did not appear in the original Latin Vulgate written by Jerome.�

Unfortunately, there's a whole lot more, too. I have bracketed them out with black in my bibles. Mark 16:9-to the end is added later.

RESPONSE: You had asked about 4th century or later additions. There are many earlier additions. The longer ending to Mark was added in the 2nd century. There is a third ending to Mark added around the time of Augustine which he favored but it never caught on. If you like, I can look it up for you.

There is good reason to believe that the last sentence to Matthew - regarding Baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost -was added about the time of the Council of Nicea. There are at least 5 baptisms described in the New Testament. All are in the name of Jesus alone.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 13 by polonius]

Yes, I have seen this info too. But, thank you. The truth will out. And then we will not look for God's rules here or there. Or across a see. They will be right in front of us. Hidden in plain sight.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 13 by polonius]

Yes, I have seen this info too. But, thank you. The truth will out. And then we will not look for God's rules here or there. Or across a see. They will be right in front of us. Hidden in plain sight.

RESPONSE: What you are claiming seems simplistic yet sometimes worrisome.

For example, God clearly states that the infants of unbelievers are to be slain.

1 Samuel 15 "3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ �

[polonius]

[Replying to post 13 by polonius]

Yes, I have seen this info too. But, thank you. The truth will out. And then we will not look for God's rules here or there. Or across a see. They will be right in front of us. Hidden in plain sight.

RESPONSE: What you are claiming seems simplistic yet sometimes worrisome.

For example, God clearly states that the infants of unbelievers are to be slain.

1 Samuel 15 "3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ �

Are Christians expected to obey God's command about killing children of nonbelievers?

[polonius]

[Replying to post 13 by polonius]

Yes, I have seen this info too. But, thank you. The truth will out. And then we will not look for God's rules here or there. Or across a see. They will be right in front of us. Hidden in plain sight.

RESPONSE: What you are claiming seems simplistic yet sometimes worrisome.

For example, God clearly states that the infants of unbelievers are to be slain.

1 Samuel 15 "3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ �

Are Christians expected to obey God's command about killing children of nonbelievers?

Or do you think that not everything the Bible says was spoken by God actually was spoken by God?


"Will God's laws really be right in front of us. Hidden in plain sight?"

[polonius]

[Replying to post 13 by polonius]

Yes, I have seen this info too. But, thank you. The truth will out. And then we will not look for God's rules here or there. Or across a see. They will be right in front of us. Hidden in plain sight.

RESPONSE: What you are claiming seems simplistic yet sometimes worrisome.

For example, God clearly states that the infants of unbelievers are to be slain.

1 Samuel 15 "3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ �

Are Christians expected to obey God's command about killing children of nonbelievers?

Or do you think that not everything the Bible says was spoken by God actually was spoken by God?


"Will God's laws really be right in front of us. Hidden in plain sight?"

RESPONSE: What is written in the Bible supposedly spoken by God frequently was not.

2 Timothy's "all scripture is God breathed" was not even written by Paul. So much for biblical integrity.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 13 by polonius]

Yes, I have seen this info too. But, thank you. The truth will out. And then we will not look for God's rules here or there. Or across a see. They will be right in front of us. Hidden in plain sight.

RESPONSE: What you are claiming seems simplistic yet sometimes worrisome.

For example, God clearly states that the infants of unbelievers are to be slain.

1 Samuel 15 "3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ �

That is what is is commanded. Actually, it seems that what plagues the nation of Isreal to this day. They had mercy to thier detriment. The Arabs plague them still. If they had actually did what was asked maybe the world would be different? I don't know, myself. It would be hard to kill infants, but some do it all day every day. This has always been true. Killing babies as a sacrifice. There is no good answer as we know it to what is God breathed and not. I think James? put it best. Test everything and hold fast to what is true. I think that is all we can do without divine intervention.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

The question invites speculation, but I think we know enough of ancient thought to speculate with some probability.

First, let's acknowledge that the O.T. portrays other truths which were revealed over time. For instance, up to Isaiah we have no notion of a blissful life after death (or eternal torture). The first clearest notion of a resurrection must wait until Daniel.

Again, monotheism was not the earliest Israelite belief: one reads various parts of the pentateuch and one gets the impression that YHWH is one god of many. It takes (again) the prophets to realize that he is not merely one god, nor even the greatest of gods, but the only God: all others are mere sticks and stones.

I think it pretty obvious that the transition from polytheism to Trinitarianism cannot be direct for people born in 2nd mil B.C.; how could we expect them to perceive the subtle but precise distinction between Trinitarianism and Tritheism?

Today, doctors visiting 3rd world countries are instructed they cannot unleash all their 1st world knowledge at once and expect the recipients to swallow it whole with perfect understanding. They must start small.