Did Paul and/or John lay the foundation for Jesus worship?

[Elijah John]

In the New Testament, the Evangelist John and the Evangelist Paul come very close to calling Jesus "God" with extremely high Christologies.

But even if they believed it, neither of them come right out and say these three, simple words. "Jesus is God".

But they do come close. John with his prologue and the "I AM" statements, and Paul with his statement (perhaps quoted from another source) that Jesus is the "very image of the invisible God".

-For debate.

Do you think that either John or Paul believed that "Jesus is God"?

If so, why didn't they just come out and say so, with these three simple words:"Jesus is God"?

And finally,

Did the writings of John and Paul lay the foundation for the docrtine of the Trinity, and if so, do we have them to thank or to blame for that?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 9 by Overcomer]

QUESTION: How are we to understand Jesus' conversation with the Pharisee reported in John chapter 10?

In John Chapter 10 both the religious leaders and Jesus himself presented an assessment of Jesus' teachings.

JOHN 10:33 - THE PHARISEES
"We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

JOHN 10:36 - JESUS CHRIST
" you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?"

So we have two clear statements, the Pharisees (liars, manipulators and people presented in scripture as misrepresenting facts) who say Jesus claimed to be "God" (or "a god" ) and Jesus Christ who explicitly stated he had claimed to be "God's son".

The reader has thus to decide whose versions of events to believe, did Jesus claim to be (a) god or did Jesus claim to be "God's son"?

One of the two, either the Pharisees or Jesus Christ, were lying. It seems reasonable to accept Jesus word as to who he is over that of the religious leaders of his day.




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


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[JehovahsWitness]

Christ's I AM statement in John 8:58 is significant. “I AM� is a name that Yahweh gave himself in Ex. 3:14.

No, Jesus was alluding to his prehuman existence and not identifying himself as Almighty God (YHWH) as per Exodus 3:14.


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[JehovahsWitness]

Then there's Mark 2:1-11. Four men bring a paralytic on a mat. Jesus says to him, “Your sins are forgiven.� The Pharisees are incensed and say, “Only God can forgive sins.� Jesus replies that he has the authority to forgive sins. Therefore, he’s saying that he is God.

People make the great mistake of basing their bible theology on the teachings of the Pharisees. The teachings of the Pharisees, something Jesus referred to as "levan", impermeated and polluted the pure teachings of bible truths. They were a perversion of truth that misrepresented God and his purpose.

CAN GOD DELEGATE?

While the Pharisees were right, only God can forgive (as in wipe out the negative effects of) sin, the implication is that He (Almighty God) would never delegate that authorit. Trinitarians adopt this Pharisitical position and also reject the notion of God delegating authority to anyone else apart from Himself and based on this dichotomy conclude, Jesus must therefore be Almighty God.

Jesus statement on the subject was

MARK 2:10

Son of man has authority to forgive sins on earth.

Almighty God cannot be said to have been "given" authority, by reason of his Supreme position as Creator and infinate source of all power, there is nobody above him so as to be a position to bestow authority on Him. But what does the bible say about the source of Jesus' authority?

JOHN 3:35
"The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.

MATTHEW 11:27
"All things have been handed over to Me by My Father;

MATTHEW 28:18-20
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

CONCLUSION: Jesus did have the authority to forgive sins. This didn't mean he was Almighty God but that he (Jesus) had been given his authority by his Father who delegated the right to forgive sins. Because Trinitarians reject this notion of delegation, they are locked into a false conclusion as indeed were the Pharisees of Jesus day.



JW


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[JehovahsWitness]

Then Yeshua said to him, “Depart Satan, for it is written: 'You shall worship THE LORD JEHOVAH your God and him alone shall you serve.' “ - Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Jesus allowed people to worship him. See Matt. 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38)

Jesus did not allow people to "worship" him as in offer him the religious adoration destined for Almighty God alone. The Greek and Hebrew words translated in many bibles "worship" can also encompass rendered "hommage" or "obeisance" as in reverential respect much the same way one would honor any important dignitary. Since Jesus explicitly stated that the religious adoration "worship" should be destined only for YHWH God, quoting the Hebrew scriptures (see Deut 5:9) all other references of the word should rightly be rendered "obeisance", "hommage" or "reverential respect" or the act of "bowing low" (which is what the word literally means).[/i]

EXODUS 18:7
And he went out to meet his kinsman, and worshipped and kissed him: and they saluted one another with words of peace. And when he was come into the tent6
Douay-Rheims Bible

MATTHEW 2:11
So they entered the house; and when they saw the babe with His mother Mary, they prostrated themselves and did Him homage, and opening their treasure-chests offered gifts to Him--gold, frankincense, and myrrh. - Weymouth New Testament

MATTHEW 14:33
But those in the ship came and did homage to him, saying, Truly thou art God's Son.- Darby Bible Translation

MATTHEW 28:9
And as they went to bring his disciples word, behold also, Jesus met them, saying, Hail! And they coming up took him by the feet, and did him homage.- Darby Bible Translation

LUKE 24:52
and they, having bowed before him, did turn back to Jerusalem with great joy 6 Young's Literal Translation

JOHN 9:38
He said: “I do put faith in him, Lord.� And he did obeisance to him. - New World Translation

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