When did belief in a Trinity begin and why?

[polonius]

[brianbbs67]

You are fooling yourself to believe a trinity doctrine existed before Nicea. There are 3. Father, son of Man, and Holy Ghost. They appear to be quite different characters by the bible accounts. And by the Son of man.

We have direct talk about the trinity from Tertullian (155 – 240 AD).

In Adversus Praxean he wrote, “We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation . . . [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Almost a century before Nicea we see explicit statements about the trinity. Tertullian didn't just use Trinitarian formulas like Irenaeus did. He actually said that God is a trinity and described the God who is one in substance but three in form. Does this at least convince you that the doctrine of the trinity existed long before Nicea?

No, but thought about it did. From what i discern from scripture , God and His spirit are one being. How could they not be? I and my spirit are one. But, I and my wife are one. I can guarantee you we are different.

Christ is one with God. I try to be. We are not the same as God as Christ emphasized. We all carry the breath of God or we would not be. Would that make us a part of Him? Yes, in a very minor way. Would that make us Him? No

[brianbbs67]

By the way, if the trinity is true, I have no issue with it. I just seek the truth.

[onewithhim]

By the way, if the trinity is true, I have no issue with it. I just seek the truth.

Well, this trinity doctrine is not true, and it is thoroughly pagan in nature and cannot be truly substantiated by any Bible passage.

Quite a number of people on these threads have seen the truth that the doctrine is an artfully contrived mess of smoke and mirrors, so how can anyone who has seen this now go back and say, well IF it is true......?

Polonius.advice and Tigger have already posted good research on this subject in the thread that is again brought up from months past. It would benefit us all if we read through it again.

[onewithhim]

The previous thread on the subject is: "How and When Did the Trinity Become Christian Dogma?" It was very well presented.

[bjs]

By the way, if the trinity is true, I have no issue with it. I just seek the truth.

Okay, but... Tertullian, arguably the most important Christian writer of his generation, flat out said that God exists in trinity. He even used nearly identical langue to the langue that we use today.

Tertullian wrote that God is one in substance but three in form. Today we say that God is one in substance but exists in three persons. The change in wording is minor and the concepts are identical.

This leaves me to ask: Is there anything that anyone could have written prior to Nicea which would convince you that they already accepted the doctrine of the trinity?

[bjs]

[polonius]

[quote="steveb1"]
[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

My "take" on it is:

1 Some early Jewish Christians viewed Jesus not as God, but still as "divine"

RESPONSE

This is a contradiction in terms. Divine involves a deity. A deity is eternal.

[polonius]

[quote="bjs"]

Instead, the overwhelming majority of early Christians accepted the trinity from the first century on (though again the modern language wasn’t used).

RESPONSE: Then why did the Jewish authorities allow the Christians who held such a view contrary to the basic teaching of Judaism "Hear O Israel, the Lord is One" remain a sect "The Way" within Judaism until about 85 AD.

Note the early theologians you quoted as believing in the Trinity all wrote long after 85 AD.

It is also notable that many early writings were later interpolated (added to) by later Christian copyists. We might do a post on this subject

[polonius]

[Replying to post 3 by bjs]

If the book of Acts is correct then the disciples preached that Jesus is God by or soon after the first Pentecost after Jesus’ resurrection.

That is news to me.

Please present your evidence from Acts.

ADDITION:

Yes. Perhaps many readers would like to see this evidence. I know I would. We certainly know of John's passage in his gospel (c. 95 AD) about the Christians being excluded from Jewish synagogues.

[polonius]