Isn't the Book of Revelation just a fable and not literal?

[polonius]

http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/0

Introduction to Revelation – New American Bible Revised Edition

This much, however, is certain: symbolic descriptions are not to be taken as literal descriptions, nor is the symbolism meant to be pictured realistically. One would find it difficult and repulsive to visualize a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes; yet Jesus Christ is described in precisely such words (Rev 5:6). The author used these images to suggest Christ’s universal (seven) power (horns) and knowledge (eyes). A significant feature of apocalyptic writing is the use of symbolic colors, metals, garments (Rev 1:13–16; 3:18; 4:4; 6:1–8; 17:4; 19:8), and numbers (four signifies the world, six imperfection, seven totality or perfection, twelve Israel’s tribes or the apostles, one thousand immensity). Finally the vindictive language in the book (Rev 6:9–10; 18:1–19:4) is also to be understood symbolically and not literally. The cries for vengeance on the lips of Christian martyrs that sound so harsh are in fact literary devices the author employed to evoke in the reader and hearer a feeling of horror for apostasy and rebellion that will be severely punished by God.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 10 by eldios]

Well, your interpretation certainly is an interesting one.

You said,

A servant is glorified, meaning God takes total control of the body and mind of the servant that he uses to speak through and write words formed in the mind.

Did someone teach you this or did you come up with it on your own?

As far as I know glorified means "represented in such a way as to appear more elevated or special."

Perhaps you meant manipulate which means "control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously."

Those who make up meanings for English words as they go confuse me.

[eldios]

[Replying to post 10 by eldios]

Well, your interpretation certainly is an interesting one.

You said,

A servant is glorified, meaning God takes total control of the body and mind of the servant that he uses to speak through and write words formed in the mind.

Did someone teach you this or did you come up with it on your own?

As far as I know glorified means "represented in such a way as to appear more elevated or special."

Perhaps you meant manipulate which means "control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously."

Those who make up meanings for English words as they go confuse me.

You will probably remain confused if you haven't heard the voice of God and obeyed His commands.

Deuteronomy 28
15: “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: “the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.

61: Every sickness also, and every affliction which is not recorded in the book of this law, the LORD will bring upon you, until you are destroyed.
62: Whereas you were as the stars of heaven for multitude, you shall be left few in number; because you did not obey the voice of the LORD your God.
63: And as the LORD took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the LORD will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you; and you shall be plucked off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.

[Elijah John]

You will probably remain confused if you haven't heard the voice of God and obeyed His commands.

Deuteronomy 28
15: “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: “the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.

61: Every sickness also, and every affliction which is not recorded in the book of this law, the LORD will bring upon you, until you are destroyed.
62: Whereas you were as the stars of heaven for multitude, you shall be left few in number; because you did not obey the voice of the LORD your God.
63: And as the LORD took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the LORD will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you; and you shall be plucked off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.

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Please review our Rules.

______________

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[eldios]

You will probably remain confused if you haven't heard the voice of God and obeyed His commands.

Deuteronomy 28
15: “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: “the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.

61: Every sickness also, and every affliction which is not recorded in the book of this law, the LORD will bring upon you, until you are destroyed.
62: Whereas you were as the stars of heaven for multitude, you shall be left few in number; because you did not obey the voice of the LORD your God.
63: And as the LORD took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the LORD will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you; and you shall be plucked off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.

Moderator Warning


This is a violation on several levels. It's preaching, and not only that, you are using Scripture as a spiritual weapon against another. Borders on personal attack.

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

This sentence I typed, "You will probably remain confused if you haven't heard the voice of God and obeyed His commands." is not an attack and certainly not preaching. At least I bring into this forum some wisdom as to why members are confused and angry instead of attacking members with mundane repetitive questions that make this forum boring as can be.

How many arguments do you need on whether or not God exists?

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

No question (or even argument) is made in the OP.

Is it the title?

In which case, it is most certainly not a fable by definition.

fa·ble
ˈf�bəl/Submit
noun
1.
a short story, typically with animals as characters, conveying a moral.
synonyms: moral tale, tale, parable, allegory
"the fable of the wary fox"

so, from the first description, it is not a fable.

Scholars list it as a particular Jewish genre, an apocalypse, on par with Daniel and 1 Enoch.

[Jedothek]

1. fundamentalism is a recent perversion of Christianity. It was understood for centuries that some passages of scripture were best understood not literally but allegorically. See, e.g., Thomas Aquinas’ specification of the literal, moral , allegorical and anagogical methods of interpretation(S Th ,part I ,question 1, article 10)

2. In the case of Revelation we get a clear indication that what is shown to John is not a simple image of the future , like a newspaper photograph, but is symbolic: “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified ( �σήμανεν, esemanen )it by his angel unto his servant John� (rev 1:1 ). The Greek word esemanen means “showed by a sign.� What John sees are signs of what “shortly must come to pass� and therefore in need of interpretation, perhaps allegorical or anagogical.

[Checkpoint]

1. fundamentalism is a recent perversion of Christianity. It was understood for centuries that some passages of scripture were best understood not literally but allegorically. See, e.g., Thomas Aquinas’ specification of the literal, moral , allegorical and anagogical methods of interpretation(S Th ,part I ,question 1, article 10)

2. In the case of Revelation we get a clear indication that what is shown to John is not a simple image of the future , like a newspaper photograph, but is symbolic: “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified ( �σήμανεν, esemanen )it by his angel unto his servant John� (rev 1:1 ). The Greek word esemanen means “showed by a sign.� What John sees are signs of what “shortly must come to pass� and therefore in need of interpretation, perhaps allegorical or anagogical.

Indeed.

Revelation is a series of visions; what John saw and what he heard.

So much of it is in metaphors, showing what is and what is to come, in the spiritual realm with its clash of kingdoms.

[polonius]

It was never meant for the people of the world to understand.

"A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place." Rev 1:1

The first sentence in the book tells us what the book is for don't you think? Or did God fail in His purpose in giving John the visions found in Revelations? Does no one understand what these events 'that must shortly take place' are?

Answer: The Book of Revelation was authored by a man, not God. One can also judge the writers mental status from what he wrote.

[TripleZ]

http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/0

Introduction to Revelation – New American Bible Revised Edition

This much, however, is certain: symbolic descriptions are not to be taken as literal descriptions, nor is the symbolism meant to be pictured realistically. One would find it difficult and repulsive to visualize a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes; yet Jesus Christ is described in precisely such words (Rev 5:6). The author used these images to suggest Christ’s universal (seven) power (horns) and knowledge (eyes). A significant feature of apocalyptic writing is the use of symbolic colors, metals, garments (Rev 1:13–16; 3:18; 4:4; 6:1–8; 17:4; 19:8), and numbers (four signifies the world, six imperfection, seven totality or perfection, twelve Israel’s tribes or the apostles, one thousand immensity). Finally the vindictive language in the book (Rev 6:9–10; 18:1–19:4) is also to be understood symbolically and not literally. The cries for vengeance on the lips of Christian martyrs that sound so harsh are in fact literary devices the author employed to evoke in the reader and hearer a feeling of horror for apostasy and rebellion that will be severely punished by God.

well, it IS in the Bible ?

[Checkpoint]

http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/0

Introduction to Revelation – New American Bible Revised Edition

This much, however, is certain: symbolic descriptions are not to be taken as literal descriptions, nor is the symbolism meant to be pictured realistically. One would find it difficult and repulsive to visualize a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes; yet Jesus Christ is described in precisely such words (Rev 5:6). The author used these images to suggest Christ’s universal (seven) power (horns) and knowledge (eyes). A significant feature of apocalyptic writing is the use of symbolic colors, metals, garments (Rev 1:13–16; 3:18; 4:4; 6:1–8; 17:4; 19:8), and numbers (four signifies the world, six imperfection, seven totality or perfection, twelve Israel’s tribes or the apostles, one thousand immensity). Finally the vindictive language in the book (Rev 6:9–10; 18:1–19:4) is also to be understood symbolically and not literally. The cries for vengeance on the lips of Christian martyrs that sound so harsh are in fact literary devices the author employed to evoke in the reader and hearer a feeling of horror for apostasy and rebellion that will be severely punished by God.

The fact that much of Revelation is couched in symbolic rather than literal language does not confirm or suggest it is just a fable.

Rather, it is what it says it is, a prophecy, a speaking forth of what God revealed concerning what is and what is to come.

Revelation 21:5

He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."