The Differences in the Gospels

[spiritletter]

Dear Forum: I'm rediscovering Christianity at age 65 and rereading the gospels. A priest from Madagascar told me that when he read John, he thought, "If this isn't true, nothing is." I found John deeply moving, full of mystery, and decided I would read all four of the gospels, beginning with Matthew. I was somewhat shocked at how harsh and militant Matthew seemed compared to John. The voice is entirely different. It feels like theology, and not the insightful and poetic wisdom offered by John. In places, I find it downright spiteful: Christ shrivels a fig tree simply because there were no figs on it when he was hungry. This is not the Christ of John. I'm beginning Mark, today, and look forward to other comparisons.

I'll say right off that I don't think the Bible was dictated by God, but I do believe that it offers insights about the original spirit of Christ, however transformed by language and culture. I am not a scholar, so working my way through this is difficult. I'm interested in hearing from those with greater knowledge. I'm not interested in hearing from fanatics or extremists.

Thanks, and blessings.

SL

[tlong]

If you don't believe the Bible is God's word, how do you decide what is truth ? Do you pick what you like?

If God is unable to preserve his word:
1. He is a liar.
2. He is weak.
3. It is impossible to know God's will for us and what we should do for salvation.

[Goat]

If you don't believe the Bible is God's word, how do you decide what is truth ? Do you pick what you like?

If God is unable to preserve his word:
1. He is a liar.
2. He is weak.
3. It is impossible to know God's will for us and what we should do for salvation.

Or, the people who claim to represent god are liars, weak, and God has nothing to do with the concept of salvation.

[Mere_Christian]

Contradictory or different?

They all seem quite Jesus to me.

[spiritletter]

If you don't believe the Bible is God's word, how do you decide what is truth ? Do you pick what you like?

If God is unable to preserve his word:
1. He is a liar.
2. He is weak.
3. It is impossible to know God's will for us and what we should do for salvation.

I think the Bible was written by imperfect but well meaning human beings and represents a long search for God. The Bible is much to contradictory to be the voice of a single person, much less God. It seems to me that we are better off seeking than claiming to have found. The minute we claim to have found the absolute truth, or have been told the absolute truth, we need no longer to seek, and are very much in danger of becoming a slave to dead and destructive dogmas. As long as we are seeking we remain humble, and are capable of discovery and surprise. Being surprised is infinitely more useful than being deadened by dogma. The Bible is full of cultural information that may no longer be true for us. For example, the Hammurabi Code of the Old Testament is every bit as oppressive as Sharia in the Koran.

I think Christ was a great teacher and that his language about the Son of God is metaphorical and allegorical rather than literal. If I read his parables and stories in this light, my experience is infinitely richer than if I blindly follow the reductive versions of this or that sect or denomination. I believe the diversity is good because it causes our brains to fire in ways that resist dogma but leave us ever more open to spirit.

[InTheFlesh]

spiritletter:

The bible was in fact written by imperfect man
but it was the Spirit that spoke.
If you don't believe the bible is the Word of God,
then you don't trust the bible to be true.
But this subforum is not about whether you trust the bible,
it's about debating doctrine.

The bible fits together like a puzzle.
So private interpretations on your part
don't constitute contradiction on his part!

I believe that contradiction does not exist in the bible.
Care to debate me about your contradiction of choice?
Be very specific and pick a biblical contradiction
that you feel the strongest about
and I challenge you in head to head debate
that scripture does not contradict?

[InTheFlesh]

Contradictory or different?

They all seem quite Jesus to me.

I agree.

To me, the four gospels are like a building.
The view may be different from every angle,
but it is still only ONE building!

[spiritletter]

spiritletter:

The bible was in fact written by imperfect man
but it was the Spirit that spoke.
If you don't believe the bible is the Word of God,
then you don't trust the bible to be true.
But this subforum is not about whether you trust the bible,
it's about debating doctrine.

The bible fits together like a puzzle.
So private interpretations on your part
don't constitute contradiction on his part!

I believe that contradiction does not exist in the bible.
Care to debate me about your contradiction of choice?
Be very specific and pick a biblical contradiction
that you feel the strongest about
and I challenge you in head to head debate
that scripture does not contradict?

Well: you can start with the following and try to square them with the Christ who cautioned the mob about stoning a woman:


GENESIS
2:22 Eve created from Adam's rib.
3:16 Cursed with painful childbirth and domination by husband.
4:17 Cain marries sister?
4:19 Man marries two wives.
12:13-19 Abraham prostitutes wife.
19:1-8 Rape virgin daughters instead of male angels.
19:26 Lot's wife turned into pillar of salt for disobeying god.
19:30-38 Lot impregnates his two daughters while drunk. (So much for "family values"!)
20:2-12 Abraham prostitutes wife - again.
25:1-6 Keeping many concubines is OK.

EXODUS
20:17 Wife as property.
21:4 Wife and children belong to master.
21:7-11 OK to sell daughters. Female slaves can be used for sex.
Polygamy permitted. Unwanted female slaves can be set "free" without payment of money.
22:18 Kill witches.

LEVITICUS
12:1 Childbirth a sin, Women unclean after childbirth.
15:19-32 Menstruating women are unclean.
20:10-16 Death penalty for homosexuality and various sexual transgressions.
21:7 Priests must not marry prostitutes or divorcees.
21:9 Burn daughters.
21:13-14 Priest must marry virgin, not "used" woman.

NUMBERS
1:2 Census lists only men - women do not count.
5:11-31 Fidelity test for women only.
30:1-16 Woman's vow invalid unless approved by her father or husband.
31:17-18 Kill all except virgins. Keep virgins for yourselves.
CH 12 Miriam punished for rebuking Moses.

DEUTERONOMY
20:14 Take women, livestock as plunder.
22:13-21 Stone non-virgin bride.
22:23-24 Stone rapist and rape victim.
22:28 Rape victim must marry rapist; rape victim's father compensated for depreciation of his property.
25:11-12 Cut woman's hand for touching foe's penis.
24:1-5 Man can "send" wife from HIS house. Man must not marry "used" woman.
28:18 The FRUIT of your womb will be cursed - eclectic "pro-life" verse!

JUDGES
5:30 Women are spoils of war.
14:20 Samson gives wife to another man.
16:1 Samson visits prostitute.
CH 19 Concubine pack-raped and butchered.
21:10-12 Slaughtered all inc. women and children. Saved virgins for wives.
21:21 Abducted girls for wives.

RUTH
Ruth shags Boaz.

1 SAMUEL
15:2-3 Attack Amalekites, kill men, women, children and livestock.
22:19 Kill all inc. infants and livestock.
21:4-5 Men avoid defilement with women.

2 SAMUEL
5:13 David took many wives and concubines.
CH 13 Ammon rapes his own sister.
16:21-22 Absalom sleeps with his father's concubines.
6:20-23 Mischal punished with bareness.

1 KINGS
11:3 Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

2 KINGS
9:30-37 Brutal murder of Jezebel.

2 CHRONICLES
15:13 Put to death unbelievers.
11:21 Hoards of wives and concubines.

ESTHER
CH 1-2 Queen Vashti dethroned for disobedience; setting "bad" example to all other women.

PSALMS
51:5 Sinful since conception.
127:3 Sons are heritage from god.
137:9 Seizes infants and dashes them against rocks.

PROVERBS
CH 5 Beware of wicked women!
CH 7 More of the above.
6:24 As above.
31:3 Do not waste strength on women.

ISAIAH
3:16-26 Lord punishes haughty women.
4:4 Filthy women.
13:16 Ravish wives, dash infants.
19:16 Will be like women! (insult to Egyptians)

EZEKIEL
9:6-7 Slaughter all including children.
CH 16 Prostitutes, stoning, promiscuity...
CH 23 Tale of two adulterous sisters - reads like the script of a pornographic film. I bet you weren't told this story at Sunday school!

HOSEA
13:16 Rip pregnant women, dash little ones. (Another "pro-life" verse!)

NAHUM
3:4... wanton lust of a harlot... prostitution... witchcraft.
3:5 I will lift your skirts over your face!
3:13... Your troops are all women. (insult to Nineveh)

MATTHEW
5:32 Husband can divorce wife for adultery. Can wife divorce husband for the same?
CH 25 Sexist tale of ten virgins.

LUKE
2:22 Mary must be purified after birth of Jesus.
2:49 Jesus rebukes his mother.

I CORINTHIANS
11:2-10... Woman created for man.
14:34 Women must be silent in churches.

EPHESIANS
5:22-24 Wives must submit to husbands in everything.

COLOSSIANS
3:18 Wives submit to husbands.
3:22 Slaves must obey masters in everything.

I TIMOTHY
2:11-15 Woman must not have authority…she must be silent. Women can be saved with childbearing.
5:9-10 Widows should be faithful to husband and must wash saints' feet.

1 PETER
2:18 Slaves submit to masters, even masters who are harsh.
3:1 Wives submit.
3:5-6 Sarah calls husband master.

REVELATION
CH 17 Destroy great prostitute.
14:4...they did not DEFILE themselves with women but kept themselves pure.

next

[InTheFlesh]

I'll take that as a no.
I don't blame you for not wanting to accept my challenge.
You would not be able to support your claims with doctrine.
It's okay to have an opinion,
but in this sub forum
we debate doctrine!

How would you prove
that the bible is not inspired by God
if the bible teaches that it is?

I'm not asking for your opinion
of why you feel that it is not the Word of God,
I'm asking you to support your claim with doctrine.

[muhammad rasullah]

If you don't believe the Bible is God's word, how do you decide what is truth ? Do you pick what you like?

If God is unable to preserve his word:
1. He is a liar.
2. He is weak.
3. It is impossible to know God's will for us and what we should do for salvation.

Or, the people who claim to represent god are liars, weak, and God has nothing to do with the concept of salvation.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Protection of the bible was intrusted to the people.

[muhammad rasullah]

spiritletter:

The bible was in fact written by imperfect man
but it was the Spirit that spoke.
If you don't believe the bible is the Word of God,
then you don't trust the bible to be true.
But this subforum is not about whether you trust the bible,
it's about debating doctrine.

The bible fits together like a puzzle.
So private interpretations on your part
don't constitute contradiction on his part!

I believe that contradiction does not exist in the bible.
Care to debate me about your contradiction of choice?
Be very specific and pick a biblical contradiction
that you feel the strongest about
and I challenge you in head to head debate
that scripture does not contradict?

So the words the spirit spoke were perfect and yet and still the men wrote them down imperfect?

So private interpretations on your part don't constitute contradiction.

Your private interpretations won't work either.

scripture does not contradict?

Scripture does contradict and I challenge you to a head to head. The last time we lost touch but I'm sure you won't mind another offer because you are very confident the bible doesn't contradict. You can choose from any of the choices below.

Did anyone ascend up into heaven besides Jesus?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

2Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Or we can debate
According to the bible "with God are all things possible"?
Judges 1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out [the inhabitants of] the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Or
Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.