What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

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McCulloch
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What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

The situation:
Someone claiming to be a Christian does a wrong. It is not an error or a slip. It is a deliberate, premeditated and continuing act that he or she knows is wrong. A non-believer publicly accuses the Christian of doing the wrong act, but has insufficient evidence to prove the case.

Questions:
What is the correct response of a Christian who has done wrong to such an accusation according to Christians moral teachings and ethics? How should such a Christian respond to the non-believing accusers? How should such a Christian respond to the community of believers? How does the concept of being a light unto the world fit in? Is it your experience that the Christian community has effectively embraced their own moral principles on this? Is it that such activity belies the person's claim to be a true Christian?

Please do not answer this according to your own opinions. Cite the Christian Bible, Christian religious leaders and teachers, and Christian example to support your answer.

Edited for clarity.
Last edited by McCulloch on Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #11

Post by McCulloch »

Amos wrote:Of course I sin, but it is not my lifestyle. 1 John 1:5-2:2 teaches that we cannot practice sin as a way of life and be saved, just like Romans 8 does.
How does one draw the line between practicing sin as a way of life and the occasional sin? If the sin was planned, premeditated and deliberate, if the sin continued even after others raised public accusations, does that mean that the alleged Christian in question is not saved?
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Re: What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #12

Post by InTheFlesh »

Amos wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:
*Are you saying that you don't walk according to the flesh?
You must be the only human who does not sin.

#A man should always react by speaking truth.
"Walk according to the flesh" in the context of Romans 8 doesn't mean "exist as a human being." Paul is contrasting 2 different mindsets, one that is obedient to God (spiritually minded) and one that is not (carnally minded). Those who set their minds on things of the flesh and do not put to death the deeds of the body will be condemned. Those who are spiritually minded and put to death the deeds of the body will live (v. 1, 5, 13).

Of course I sin, but it is not my lifestyle. 1 John 1:5-2:2 teaches that we cannot practice sin as a way of life and be saved, just like Romans 8 does.

Confession of our sins is also necessary for forgiveness as McCulloch has pointed out. I referred to 1 John 1:9 in my earlier response, but didn't discuss confession specifically. "Confess our sins" in 1 John 1:9 carries behind it the idea of acknowledging our sins. We cannot repent of that which we don't acknowledge. And James 5:16 indicates that there are times that that confession needs to be made to our brethren so that we may pray for each other.
Does a man get saved because of good works?
NO!

Does a man loose salvation because of sin?
NO!

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Re: What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #13

Post by Amos »

McCulloch wrote:
How does one draw the line between practicing sin as a way of life and the occasional sin? If the sin was planned, premeditated and deliberate, if the sin continued even after others raised public accusations, does that mean that the alleged Christian in question is not saved?
The Christian can so sin as to be lost. That’s what happened to Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8. He believed the things Philip taught concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ and was baptized (v. 9-13). He was saved (cf. Mark 16:16). But he later offered Peter and John money, wanting to buy the ability to impart the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit to others (v. 18-19). Here’s what Peter said to him:
Acts 8:20-23 But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.�

He was told he was going to perish. He was told his heart was not right in the sight of God. He was told to repent and pray for forgiveness because he was poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. If he had refused to repent and pray for forgiveness, he would have been lost because of 1 sin. The Christian should not be trying to establish a number of sins he can get away with and still be saved.

The Christian should be trying to eliminate every sin from his life (1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Romans 6:12-13, Romans 12:1-2, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 4:17-24, Colossians 3:1-10). But there will be times when we fail, and when we do we must repent and pray for forgiveness (Acts 8:14-24, 1 John 1:5-2:6, James 5:16, Galatians 6:1, 1 John 5:16-17).

Hebrews 10:23-31 teaches that there remains no sacrifice for sins if we willfully continue in sin.

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Re: What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #14

Post by Amos »

InTheFlesh wrote:
Does a man get saved because of good works?
NO!

Does a man loose salvation because of sin?
NO!
That's some powerful argumentation there - all caps and exclamation points. I am astonished at your teaching, for you teach as one having authority and not as the scribes.

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Re: What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #15

Post by McCulloch »

InTheFlesh wrote:Does a man get saved because of good works?
NO!

Does a man [strike]loose[/strike] lose salvation because of sin?
NO!
In debate it is customary to present more than a bare unsupported assertion of your position.

Is salvation conditional or unconditional? If conditional, can it not be lost? If unconditional, then is it universal?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
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Re: What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #16

Post by OnceConvinced »

Amos wrote:
McCulloch wrote:
How does one draw the line between practicing sin as a way of life and the occasional sin? If the sin was planned, premeditated and deliberate, if the sin continued even after others raised public accusations, does that mean that the alleged Christian in question is not saved?
The Christian can so sin as to be lost. That’s what happened to Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8. He believed the things Philip taught concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ and was baptized (v. 9-13). He was saved (cf. Mark 16:16). But he later offered Peter and John money, wanting to buy the ability to impart the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit to others (v. 18-19). Here’s what Peter said to him:
Acts 8:20-23 But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.�

He was told he was going to perish. He was told his heart was not right in the sight of God. He was told to repent and pray for forgiveness because he was poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. If he had refused to repent and pray for forgiveness, he would have been lost because of 1 sin. The Christian should not be trying to establish a number of sins he can get away with and still be saved.

The Christian should be trying to eliminate every sin from his life (1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Romans 6:12-13, Romans 12:1-2, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 4:17-24, Colossians 3:1-10). But there will be times when we fail, and when we do we must repent and pray for forgiveness (Acts 8:14-24, 1 John 1:5-2:6, James 5:16, Galatians 6:1, 1 John 5:16-17).

Hebrews 10:23-31 teaches that there remains no sacrifice for sins if we willfully continue in sin.
Did Simon really get saved to begin with though? Does baptism automatically make him saved? Sounds like maybe he was one of those people you might call a "false Chrstian" who never really repented to begin wiht. A possibility?

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


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Re: What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #17

Post by InTheFlesh »

Amos wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:
Does a man get saved because of good works?
NO!

Does a man loose salvation because of sin?
NO!
That's some powerful argumentation there - all caps and exclamation points. I am astonished at your teaching, for you teach as one having authority and not as the scribes.
What about the substance of the argument?
Will you comment on that?
Or you just commenting on my typing?
Did I share something unbiblical?

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Re: What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #18

Post by InTheFlesh »

McCulloch wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:Does a man get saved because of good works?
NO!

Does a man [strike]loose[/strike] lose salvation because of sin?
NO!
In debate it is customary to present more than a bare unsupported assertion of your position.

Is salvation conditional or unconditional? If conditional, can it not be lost? If unconditional, then is it universal?
Thanks for the spell correction.

I thought it was common knowledge that salvation is a gift,
not of works lest any man should boast.
And if we were saved while sinners,
why would we loose it due to sin?

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Re: What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #19

Post by Amos »

OnceConvinced wrote:Did Simon really get saved to begin with though? Does baptism automatically make him saved? Sounds like maybe he was one of those people you might call a "false Chrstian" who never really repented to begin wiht. A possibility?
There is nothing in the context of Acts 8 that would indicate that Simon was anything other than saved prior to his sin in v. 18-19. He had believed and was baptized (v. 13) after he heard Philip preach Christ and the kingdom (v. 5, 12). Included in the preaching of Christ is repentance (Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19). If Simon had been "faking it," I don't think he would have repented at the chastisement he received from Peter (v. 24). Simon was obviously concerned about being right with God.

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Re: What is the correct Christian moral teaching?

Post #20

Post by Amos »

InTheFlesh wrote:
Amos wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:
Does a man get saved because of good works?
NO!

Does a man loose salvation because of sin?
NO!
That's some powerful argumentation there - all caps and exclamation points. I am astonished at your teaching, for you teach as one having authority and not as the scribes.
What about the substance of the argument?
Will you comment on that?
Or you just commenting on my typing?
Did I share something unbiblical?
I was just using sarcasm to point out the lack of an argument in your post. You only made a couple of assertions, not arguments.

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