A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

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A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #1

Post by mms20102 »

In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

Friends, to keep the conversation clear and strictly text‑based, I propose we follow five prophetic milestones. After each milestone comes one focused question. Let’s address them in sequence—no flooding, no diversions, Scripture only.


  • The Unrevoked Promise to Ishmael
Genesis 17 :20 – “As for Ishmael, I have heard you… I will make him a great nation.”
Nowhere is this promise annulled. Later, Isaiah envisions praise and accepted offerings from Kedar and Nebaioth (Isa 42 :11; 60 :6‑7).

Q‑1: Through what historical development does that “great nation” promise reach its intended fullness?



  • Paran—A Second Dawn of Revelation
Deuteronomy 33 :2 – “The LORD… shone forth from Mount Paran.”
Habakkuk 3 :3 repeats the scene. Paran lies in the Arabian wilderness.

Q‑2: Which later revelation best satisfies the description of God’s light shining from Paran?



  • The Prophet “Like Moses” (Deut 18 :15‑19)

Key features:

risen after Moses,

bearer of a decisive law,

must be listened to on pain of judgment.


Q‑3: Who, according to the canonical texts, most completely matches that profile?




  • The Comforter / Spirit of Truth (John 14‑16)
Jesus promises “another Comforter” who will come only after His departure, “speak what he hears,” and guide into all truth.
The Holy Spirit was already active before the Ascension (Luke 3 :22; John 20 :22).

Q‑4: Who is the promised Comforter - distinct messenger who completes universal guidance?



  • The Stone‑Kingdom & “A Nation Producing Its Fruit”
Daniel 2 ends with a Stone that shatters the statue‑empires and becomes a mountain filling the earth (Dan 2 :34‑35, 44‑45).
Jesus echoes the hand‑over:
“The kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing its fruit.” (Matt 21 :43)

Q‑5: Which empires did the “Stone” of Daniel’s vision topple, and today, which nation best displays the fruits Jesus spoke of—justice, a lived‑out revealed law, and unwavering devotion to the one God?




Guidelines

1. One question at a time. We start with Q‑1; only after it’s answered do we move to Q‑2.


2. Primary texts only—Torah, Prophets, Gospels, Qur’an. No tertiary links.


3. Keep it concise. One tight paragraph beats a page of quotations.


Supporting verses about a coming prophet from Quran

"Our Lord! Raise from among them a messenger who will recite to them Your revelations, teach them the Book and wisdom, and purify them. Indeed, You ˹alone˺ are the Almighty, All-Wise.” (Abraham and Ishmael) Q 2:129

"Just like We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know." Q 2:151


"when Allah made a covenant with the prophets, ˹saying,˺ “Now that I have given you the Book and wisdom, if there comes to you a messenger confirming what you have, you must believe in him and support him.” He added, “Do you affirm this covenant and accept this commitment?” They said, “Yes, we do.” Allah said, “Then bear witness, and I too am a Witness with you.” Q 3:81


"the ones who follow the Messenger, the unlettered [Gentile] Prophet, whose description they find in their Torah and the Gospel. He commands them to do good and forbids them from evil, permits for them what is lawful and forbids to them what is impure, and relieves them from their burdens and the shackles that bound them. those who believe in him, honor and support him, and follow the light sent down to him will be successful."
Q 7:157




"It is He who has sent among the unlettered [Gentiles] a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error"
Q 62:2





May God help us seek truth and never shame us for doing so.

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #11

Post by mms20102 »

[Replying to 1213 in post #10]

Friend, thank you for sharing your thoughts, but with all due respect, I must point something out.

Saying “it seems to me that Muslims worship the Kaaba” and then pasting an image of people praying toward it is not a valid source — it's a personal impression, not a theological citation.

By that logic, if someone saw Christians kneeling toward a cross, or Jews facing the Western Wall, they might also say “it seems they worship stone or wood.” But we both know that would be an unfair and shallow assessment.

Muslims do not worship the Kaaba. It is a unifying direction (qiblah), ordained by God — not a deity. No Muslim believes the structure itself has divine power. The worship is directed to Allah alone, and the Kaaba is simply the focal point for that unity in prayer.

If we are to have a serious discussion about idolatry, let's at least define worship correctly: reverence directed to a being believed to possess divine attributes, not symbolic orientation in collective prayer.

Now, respectfully, may I ask: can you present any Islamic text — Qur’an or Hadith — where Muslims are commanded to worship the Kaaba?

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #12

Post by 1213 »

mms20102 wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 7:45 am ...By that logic, if someone saw Christians kneeling toward a cross...
I think it is equally wrong.
mms20102 wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 7:45 amMuslims do not worship the Kaaba. It is a unifying direction (qiblah), ordained by God — not a deity. No Muslim believes the structure itself has divine power. The worship is directed to Allah alone, and the Kaaba is simply the focal point for that unity in prayer.
But isn't God everywhere? Do you know what is the reason for the need for the specific same direction?
mms20102 wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 7:45 am ...where Muslims are commanded to worship the Kaaba?
If it is not commanded, why are the prayers directed to the stone?
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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #13

Post by mms20102 »

[Replying to 1213 in post #12]

First

I’ve already provided the relevant biblical passages showing that “great nation” involves qualitative righteousness, not mere head-count.
You’re the one claiming it’s only about numbers, so you—not I—need to bring the textual evidence for that claim.

Second

You asserted that Muslims “worship the stone.”
Islamic texts say the Kaʿbah is a qiblah (direction), not a deity.
If you believe otherwise, you need to cite an Islamic source—Qur’an or sound ḥadith—commanding Muslims to worship the Kaʿbah itself.
Until you supply that evidence, the claim remains an unsupported impression.

And also I will ignore any other branching that's not contributing to the main topic and consider it as time wasting

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #14

Post by A Freeman »

Excerpt below from:

The Top 10 Myths That Dominate "Islam"

10. The Islamic “High-Five”

One of the 5 “pillars” of the organized religion that refers to itself as “Islam” is “salat”, i.e. piety-acting practice dubbed as “prayer”, performed 5 times a day. These “prayers” are supposed to be to Allah (God), but where in God’s Koran (Quran) did He instruct us to follow this heathen ritual? And how can this be considered prayer? A thorough examination of the evidence proves, beyond any reasonable doubt, that this is neither prescribed by God nor is it actually prayer.

There isn’t one single verse (ayat) in the Koran (Quran) that instructs us to go through this “prayer” drama five times a day, so we can pat each other on the back for it and pretend to be among the faithful. Not one.

Instead, we are told no less than 40 TIMES to establish CONSTANT prayer.

Please See – Suras 2:277, 4:77, 4:162, 5:13, 5:58, 6:72, 6:92, 7:170, 8:3, 9:5, 9:11, 9:18, 9:71, 10:87, 11:114, 13:22, 14:31, 14:37, 14:40, 17:78, 20:14, 20:132, 21:73, 22:35, 22:41, 22:78, 24:37, 24:56, 27:3, 29:45, 30:31, 31:4, 31:17, 33:33, 35:18, 35:29, 42:38, 58:13, 73:20, 98:5

Sura 2:277 – Those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and establish constant prayer and regular charity, will have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Sura 4:162 – But those among them who are well-grounded in Knowledge, and the Believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what was revealed before thee: and (especially) those who establish constant prayer and practise regular charity and believe God and in The Last Day: to them shall We soon give a great reward.

Sura 6:72 – To establish constant prayer and to fear “I AM”: for it is to Him that we shall be gathered together.”

Sura 7:170 – As to those who hold fast by The Book (Bible) and establish constant prayer,- never shall We suffer the reward of the righteous to perish.

Sura 9:18 – The (human) temples of “I AM” (1 Cor. 3:16-17; 1 Cor. 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; Acts 7:48; Acts 17:24) shall be filled with Light by believing “I AM” and in The Last Day; establishing constant prayer (1 Thess. 5:17), and practicing regular charity (Matt. 6:1-4, Mark 12:31), and fearing none (at all) except “I AM” (and doing only His Will – Matt. 6:10). It is they who are expected to be on True Guidance.

Sura 24:37 – By men whom neither traffic nor merchandise can divert from the Remembrance of “I AM”, nor from constant Prayer, nor from the practice of regular Charity (Mark 12:31): their (only) fear is for The Day when hearts and eyes will be transformed (in a world wholly new – Ezek. 36:26-27, Matt. 13:13-17),-

Sura 29:45 – Learn by heart what is sent from the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish constant Prayer: for Prayer restrains ye from shameful and unjust deeds; and CONSTANT remembrance of “I AM” is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And “I AM” knows the (deeds) that ye do.

Sura 58:13 – Is it that ye are afraid of spending sums in charity before your private consultation (with him)? If, then, ye do not so, and “I AM” forgives you, then (at least) establish constant prayer (1 Thess. 5:17); practise regular charity; and obey “I AM” and His Messenger. And “I AM” is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

Sura 98:5 – And they have been commanded no more than this: to worship God, offering Him sincere devotion, being True (in Faith); to establish constant Prayer (1 Thess. 5:17), and to practise regular Charity (Matt. 6:1-8) and THAT is the Religion (bonded obligation) Right and Straight.

COMPARE WITH:

1 Thessalonians 5:17 – PRAY WITHOUT CEASING.

Ephesians 6:18 – Praying constantly (without ceasing) with all prayer and supplication IN THE SPIRIT, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all holy people;

Prayer is spiritual communication with God, in the privacy of one’s mind, the most important aspect of which is LISTENING. How can God teach and guide someone who is so busy trying to impress others at Islamic cheerleading practice (rah, rah, rak’ah) that they can’t hear anything He says? And why would He bother with someone who won’t even follow His explicit written instructions?

Every moment spent not listening to God, is another moment spent listening to Lucifer/Iblis – Satan.

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #15

Post by A Freeman »

9. Misery loves company

Along with paying no attention to what it says in the Koran about when to pray, “Muslims” apparently skipped over the instructions on how and where to pray too. Where in the Koran does it instruct us to go to a mosque (temple, church, synagogue, etc.), and/or make a public display of our private relationship with our Creator?

The Koran wasn’t given to Muhammad (peace be upon him) to warn Muslims about unbelievers; it was given as a blessing (Gen. 17:20) and to warn REAL Muslims from becoming unbelievers and hypocrites themselves (Sura 4:150-152), after so graciously being invited to do God’s Will (Matt. 22:1-14, Sura 61:7).

Sura 4:142 – The Hypocrites – they think they are over-reaching God, but He will over-reach them: when they stand up to prayer, they stand without earnestness, to be seen by men (Matt. 6:5), only little do they hold God in remembrance;

Sura 7:55 – Call on your Lord with HUMILITY and in PRIVATE (Enoch 56:5; Matt. 6:6): for “I AM” loveth not those who trespass beyond bounds.

Sura 9:107-111
9:107 – And there are those who put up mosques (churches; synagogues; etc.), by way of mischief and BETRAYAL – to disunite the Believers – and in preparation for one who warred against “I AM” (Rev. 12:7) and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; but “I AM” doth declare that they are certainly LIARS.
9:108 – NEVER stand thou forth therein. There is an Holy Place (Mt. Moriah) whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and “I AM” loveth those who make themselves pure.
9:109 – Which then is best? – he that layeth his foundation on piety (a Rock – Matthew 7:24-27) to “I AM” and His Good Pleasure? – or he that layeth his foundation on an undermined sand-cliff ready to crumble to pieces? And it doth crumble to pieces with him, into The Fire of Hell. And “I AM” guideth not people that do wrong (if they are doing wrong Satan is guiding them).
9:110 – The foundation of those who so build is never free from suspicion and shakiness in their hearts, until their hearts are cut to pieces. And “I AM” is All-Knowing, Wise.
9:111 – “I AM” hath purchased from the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is The Garden (of Bliss): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through The Law (The Torah), The Gospel (New Testament/Covenant), and The Koran: and who is more faithful to His Covenant (in the Bible) than “I AM”? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded (to fulfill The Covenant of “I AM” written in the Bible): that is the achievement supreme.

Sura 33:33 – And stay quietly IN YOUR HOUSES (Sura 9:107-111), and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance (Sura 4:142, Sura 7:55); and establish constant Prayer (1 Thess. 5:17), and give regular Charity (Matt. 6:1-8); and obey “I AM” and His Messenger. And “I AM” only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye Members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless (Matt. 5:8).

Sura 107:5-6
107:5 – Who are neglectful of their Prayers,
107:6 – Those who (want only) to be seen (by men – Matt. 6:5),

COMPARE WITH:

Enoch 56:5 – Henceforward shall the holy people be told to seek in heaven the secrets of righteousness (Matt. 6:6; Sura 7:55), the portion of faith; for like the sun has it arisen upon the Earth (Matt. 24:27), while darkness has passed away. There shall be Light which cannot be calculated, nor shall they enter upon the enumeration of time (Rev. 10:6); for “Darkness” shall be previously destroyed (1 John 3:8), and Light shall increase before the Lord of spirits; before the Lord of spirits shall the Light of uprightness increase for ever (Rev. 22:4-5)

Matthew 6:5-8
6:5 – And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward (they have been seen by men, but God will not answer them).
6:6 – But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father IN PRIVATE (Enoch 56:5; Sura 7:55); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly (by answering you).
6:7 – But when ye pray, use NOT vain repetitions, as the heathen [DO]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
6:8 – Be NOT ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, BEFORE ye ask Him.

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #16

Post by A Freeman »

8. It’s time to face the music

“In the early years of Islam, the Qiblah direction was towards the city of Jerusalem.”

There is no reference in the Holy Koran to the city of Mecca by name, nor by implication. ALL references, in the Holy Koran, to the City of Peace refer to Jerusalem, NOT to Mecca. The word Mecca does NOT mean the City of Peace; the word Jerusalem DOES mean City of Peace in Hebrew.

Please see – Suras 2:125-127, 2:144, 3:96-97, 5:98, 6:92, 9:7, 9:19, 9:28, 9:108, 14:35, 17:1, 22:25-26, 27:91, 42:7, 48:22-25, Sura 90:1-2 and Sura 95:1-4, all of which direct us to turn and face Jerusalem, where Abraham offered his miracle son Isaac and became a “friend of God”.

King of kings’ Bible – Sura 2:125-127
2:125 – Remember We made The House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety and take ye The Station of Abraham (Mt. Moriah – Gen. 22:2) as a place of prayer and We Covenanted with Abraham and ISAAC (Gen. 17:21), that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (there, in prayer).
2:126 – And remember Abraham said: “My Lord, make this a City of PEACE (Jeru-SALEM in Hebrew), and feed its people with fruits,- such of them as believe God and in the Last Day.” He said: “(Yea), and such as reject Faith,- for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!”
2:127 – And remember Abraham and ISAAC (Gen. 17:21, Gen. 22:2; Sura 37:101-102, 112-113) raised the foundations of The House (with this prayer): “Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.

Sura 2:144 – We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Sacrifice that shall please thee? Turn thy face in the direction of THE Holy Place: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of The Book (Bible) know well that that is the truth from their Lord (1 kings 8:29-30; 2 Chron. 3:1). Nor is God unaware of what they do.

Sura 6:92 – And this (Koran) is a Book which We have sent down, bringing blessings, and confirming (the revelations) which came before it: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities (Jerusalem – Isa. 1:1, Isa. 1:21, Isa. Isa. 52:1-2, Isa. 62:11-12; Matt. 23:37, Gal. 4:26) and all around her (just like almost all of the previous Prophets were also told to do). Those who believe in the Hereafter (also) believe this (Book), and they are constant in guarding their prayers.

Sura 14:35 – Remember Abraham said: “O my Lord! Make this city one of peace (Jeru-salem, city of peace) and security: and preserve me and my sons from worshipping idols.

Sura 42:7 – Thus have We sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Koran: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities (Jerusalem – Jer. 15:5-8, Matt. 5:35, Gal. 4:26) and all around her,- and warn (them) of The Day of Assembly, of which there is no doubt: (when) some will be in The Garden, and some in The Blazing Fire.

Sura 48:22-25
48:22 – If the Unbelievers should fight you, they would certainly turn their backs; then would they find neither protector nor helper.
48:23 – (Such has been) the practice (approved) by “I AM” already in the past: NO CHANGE wilt thou find in the practice (approved) by “I AM” (Heb. 13:8).
48:24 – And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of the physical altercation (“makkah”), after that He gave you the victory over them. And “I AM” sees well all that ye do.
48:25 – They are the ones who denied revelation and hindered you from the Holy Place and the sacrificial animals, detained from reaching their place of sacrifice. Had there not been believing men and believing women whom ye did not know that ye were trampling down and on whose account a crime would have accrued to you without (your) knowledge, (“I AM” would have allowed you to force your way, but He held back your hands) that He may admit to His Mercy whom He will. If they had been apart, We should certainly have punished the Unbelievers among them with a grievous Punishment.

Note: The morally and intellectually bankrupt attempt to promote pagan Mecca as “the Holy Place”, “Mother of Cities”, “City of Peace” and the place where the First and ONLY House of God (Solomon’s Temple) was built (where animals were sacrificed), hinges on the deceitful insertion of “Mecca” into Sura 48:24 in some intentional mistranslations of the Koran.

The Arabic word “makkah” does NOT translate to “Mecca”; it means physical altercation or confrontation. It also is NOT interchangeable with “Bakkah” (Sura 3:96), as M’s and B’s cannot be substituted for one another in Arabic. Bakkah is derived from the Hebrew word “Baca” which means “tears”. The Valley of Baca/Tears (Ps. 84:6-7) received its name because it’s where Abraham passed through with Isaac heavy-hearted, on his way to Mt. Moriah, to sacrifice Isaac, as God COMMANDED him to do, to test his faith.

Mt. Moriah is in Jerusalem, which is also referred to as the “mother of cities” because it’s where Abraham’s children were born and/or raised, and where Abraham became a “friend of God” through his righteous actions, thereby setting the correct example for all of his children (Sura 3:68).

Galatians 4:26 – But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother (of cities) of us all.

How is it possible then for anyone to think that Allah tells us in one verse (Sura 48:23) that we will find NO CHANGE in any of His approved practices, but in the very next verse He allegedly changed HIS City of Peace (Jeru-salem) to Mecca, HIS Valley of Tears (Baca) to Mecca, HIS Covenant with Isaac to Ishmael (Gen. 17:20-21), and HIS Holy Place (Isa. 28:16) to a pagan mosque in idolatrous Mecca (Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24, Sura 9:107-108)?

COMPARE WITH: Gen. 22:2-3, 14, 1 kings 6:1-2, 11-14, 1 kings 8:29, 1 kings 8:41-45, 2 Chron. 3:1, 2 Chron. 6:18-21, Ps. 5:7, 84.4-7, 138:2, Isa. 56:7

Genesis 22:2-3, 14
22:2 – And He said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
22:3 – And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
22:14 – And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said [to] this day, In the mount of the “I AM” it shall be seen (the mount of recognition – Sura 2:198).

1 kings 8:29 – That Thine eyes may be open toward THIS house night and day, [even] toward the place of which Thou hast said, MY name shall be there: that Thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which Thy servant shall make toward THIS place.

1 kings 6:1-2, 11-14
6:1 – And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign over Israel, in the month Zif, which [is] the second month, that he began to build The House of the “I AM”.
6:2 – And The House which king Solomon built for the “I AM”, the length thereof [was] threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof twenty [cubits], and the height thereof thirty cubits (compare with the Meccan Temple [cubits]: 25.2 x 21.6 x 25.7).
6:11 – And the Word of the “I AM” came to Solomon, saying,
6:12 – [Concerning] this house which thou art in building, if thou wilt walk in My Statutes, and execute My Judgments, and keep ALL My Commandments to walk in them; then will I perform My word with thee, which I spoke unto David thy father:
6:13 – And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will not forsake MY people Israel (who are descended from Isaac, NOT Ishmael).
6:14 – So Solomon built The House, and finished it.

Isaiah 56:7 – Even them will I bring to My Holy Mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon Mine Altar; for Mine House shall be called “The House of prayer for ALL people” (Sura 9:107-8).

Jerusalem (City of Peace) is mentioned in the Bible OVER 800 TIMES (and over 100 times more as Zion, as well as indirectly at least 28 more times in the Koran, IF it’s properly read and understood). It’s where God said He put His Name, His House and where His Servants are instructed to pray towards. Conversely, there is no mention of Mecca anywhere in the Bible or in the Koran.

Which city do you think God placed an emphasis on? It isn’t the “new Mecca” that will be coming down out of heaven; it’s the NEW JERUSALEM.

Peace (salem) be upon you.

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #17

Post by A Freeman »

The following excerpt is from...

THE GOOD NEWS OF A BOY

...and is being shared with love and in hope that "Muslims" and "Christians" alike can see that the Koran/Quran was very obviously altered, in a vain effort to try to substitute Ishmael for Isaac in Sura 2:125-127

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

THE GOOD NEWS OF A BOY


(PROOF that Abraham offered ISAAC)

Sura 37:101 And We gave Abraham the "good news" of a boy ready to suffer and forbear (through the angel messengers We sent to him).

Sura 37:102 Then, when the boy reached the age of serious work with him Abraham said, "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice."

Sura 37:112 And We gave him the "good news" of Isaac - a prophet - one of the righteous (through the angel messengers We sent to him).

Sura 37:113 We blessed Abraham and Isaac.

Sura 6:84 And We gave Abraham Isaac and Jacob: all three We guided aright.

Sura 38:45-46 And commemorate Our servants Abraham, Isaac (not Ishmael), and Jacob, possessors of Power and Vision. Verily did We choose them for a special purpose - proclaiming the Message of the Hereafter. They were in Our sight, truly, of the company of the Elect and the good.

Sura 11:71 And We gave Abraham the glad tidings ("good news") of Isaac and after him Jacob / Israel (the son of Isaac).

Sura 15:54 "Good news" of a son.

Sura 51:28 Glad tidings ("good news") of a son (Isaac - "laughter" in Hebrew) and Sarah laughed being 90 years old (the word Isaac means laughter and because Sarah laughed the child was named "laughter" - Isaac in Hebrew).

We gave the "good news" means "news from God" via an angel messenger. No angel was ever sent to Abraham to announce the birth of Ishmael and this is born-out by all of the Holy Scriptures. He was born because of Sarai (Sarah) not because of God and was born to an Egyptian surrogate-mother, called Hagar.

All of the references of "good news" refer to Isaac and not to Ishmael, proving that the Meccans changed the name Isaac for Ishmael in Sura 2:125 and 127.

However Ishmael was blessed by God, later, when Abraham, who loved him, asked God to let Ishmael live before God (Genesis 17:18-20).

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #18

Post by A Freeman »

The promises made to Abraham and Sarah concerning Isaac, and later to Isaac's son Jacob/Israel:

Genesis 17:15-21
17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah [shall] her name [be].
17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be [a mother] of NATIONS (plural); kings of people shall be of her (the kingly line of David, from whom Jesus was descended).
17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall [a child] be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before Thee!
17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac (Laughter): and I will establish My Covenant with him for an EVERLASTING COVENANT, [and] with his seed after him.
17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
17:21 But My Covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

So we can very clearly see that God's EVERLASTING Covenant is with Isaac and his seed (Jacob/Israel and the sons of Israel), and NOT with Ishmael; although God later blessed Ishmael, as He promised to do.

Genesis 35:10-12
35:10 And God said unto him, Thy name [is] Jacob (the Supplanter): thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and He called his name Israel (champion of God).
35:11 And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation AND a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
35:12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #19

Post by 1213 »

mms20102 wrote: Fri May 09, 2025 10:17 am ...
Islamic texts say the Kaʿbah is a qiblah (direction), not a deity....
Does it say why so?
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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #20

Post by mms20102 »

[Replying to 1213 in post #19]

Before moving on, have we concluded the previous points?

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