Russia Attacks Ukraine

[Diogenes]

For the first time since 1939 a major European power, Russia, has attacked another country in Europe, Ukraine. We have not seen an analogous situation since Germany attacked Poland setting off World War 2. Surprisingly we have Neville Chamberlain like appeasement/isolationist responses from Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson. Besides the 180° turn from traditional Republican politics, to what extent are these events relevant to Christianity?

[Sherlock Holmes]

For the first time since 1939 a major European power, Russia, has attacked another country in Europe, Ukraine. We have not seen an analogous situation since Germany attacked Poland setting off World War 2. Surprisingly we have Neville Chamberlain like appeasement/isolationist responses from Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson. Besides the 180° turn from traditional Republican politics, to what extent are these events relevant to Christianity?

It is indeed a very dangerous situation but it certainly is not the fist time since WW2.

For example NATO bombed the sovereign Federal Republic of Yugoslavia during 1999. This offensive use of a so-called defensive organization was a breach of international law (which is defined by the UN Charter) because no UN authorization was given. NATO is intended to activate military operations when any member state is attacked, but in this case there was no attack or even threat or risk of attack, on a NATO member.

Prior to the commencement of the bombing the Yugoslav government had refused to sign the Rambouillet Agreement which represented a settlement between Serbia and an Albanian terrorist organization called the KLA.

The Serbs were prepared to reach an agreement but the document included this provision:

Among other things, the accords called for 30,000 NATO peacekeeping troops in Kosovo; an unhindered right of passage for NATO troops on Yugoslav territory; and immunity for NATO and its agents to Yugoslav law.

This was clearly never going to be acceptable and so the bombing, predictably, commenced, even the Chinese embassy was hit and Chinese citizens killed.

Anyone who follows international geopolitics will understand that Russia fears a similar fate, that it will - like Yugoslavia - be eventually fragmented, dismantled and exploited for its resources, that fear is entirely rational IMHO given the insidious ongoing expansion of NATO.

Regarding Christianity? as has been the case for centuries we see Christians killing Christians.

[Purple Knight]

I see a lot of political people who can't take responsibility when they want to take all the responsibility (mainly, credit for being responsible). These are things like spending countless funds and lives on protecting Afghanistan and then blooping out of there like a wet water balloon out of a child's hand. And is this even new, or is this Vietnam all over again?

Whosoever dares to protect the Ukraine should think long and hard about whether or not they're prepared to actually take that responsibility or whether it's simply a war of convenience, for PR - oh look how goody-good we are protecting the little guy from big bad Russia - or to enrich the Military Industrial Complex, or for votes. And everyone pretty much knows now, it's money and PR and votes.

In some ways this is related to religion because I'm convinced that if people really believed they could burn for it, they would believe that they were going to burn for it. And then, you know... not do it.

But the scheme (that worked, for the most part) is sort of out now and we're going to have to hold people accountable without simply passing it off on God to do it after they're dead. Because even if it's true, they don't think it is anymore and the system of free consequences nobody has to bother actually enforcing has thereby collapsed.

[AgnosticBoy]

Anyone who follows international geopolitics will understand that Russia fears a similar fate, that it will - like Yugoslavia - be eventually fragmented, dismantled and exploited for its resources, that fear is entirely rational IMHO given the insidious ongoing expansion of NATO.

Russia may have some valid reasons to be concerned, but I'm sure they also have some nefarious motives, as well. Some would say that wanting to restore Russia to the level and power it had as the Soviet Union is one such motive. The Russian leadership have not been clear on why they attacked Ukraine since they've given a number of reasons, and that alone is suspect. Essentially, a lot of this all boils down to power and influence.

Following some of what you said about NATO expansion, if I were Russia I would've only acted if Ukraine actually joined NATO, and it posed an imminent threat. This was not done so Russia should take most of the blame for wrongdoing here regardless of how much the West may've contributed to this conflict.

In general, I'd recommend for people to not accept what their government says in an unquestioning way, and that goes even for Western nations.

[alexxcJRO]

Anyone who follows international geopolitics will understand that Russia fears a similar fate, that it will - like Yugoslavia - be eventually fragmented, dismantled and exploited for its resources, that fear is entirely rational IMHO given the insidious ongoing expansion of NATO.

Russia may have some valid reasons to be concerned, but I'm sure they also have some nefarious motives, as well. Some would say that wanting to restore Russia to the level and power it had as the Soviet Union is one such motive. The Russian leadership have not been clear on why they attacked Ukraine since they've given a number of reasons, and that alone is suspect. Essentially, a lot of this all boils down to power and influence.

Following some of what you said about NATO expansion, if I were Russia I would've only acted if Ukraine actually joined NATO, and it posed an imminent threat. This was not done so Russia should take most of the blame for wrongdoing here regardless of how much the West may've contributed to this conflict.

In general, I'd recommend for people to not accept what their government says in an unquestioning way, and that goes even for Western nations.

The powerful in the West fooled the simpletons OMG terrorism, Saddam has bombs in order to invade and have their wars.
Putin is doing the same thing with his preposterous and ridiculous allegations to have his war. When I heard his speech I simply burst in laughter.
Joseph Goebbels would be proud.
It’s all a fight for supremacy and power among the intelligent, powerful, rich narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths who rule the world at the expanse of the innocent simpletons.
All this is happening while a global climatic crisis is ongoing, getting worse every day with the business as usual scenario most likely leading to extinction.
We will most likely go extinct because all our political(fake democracy, communism, socialism) and economical(capitalism) allow for narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths to proliferate at the most top level, in the most powerful, most influential positions.
We have billions of simpletons which are religious, don't know how real and dangerous psychopathy, sociopathy is, with all their delusion of sin and repentance in their heads. Don't believe evolution, climate change is real. They walk back and forth manipulated by those at the top like mouses in labyrinth like traps.
They believe there is a God who cares about them, Jesus will save the day when in fact is most likely there is nothing out there that cares for the human race survival.

We have in our hand a somewhat of a perfect storm.
Quite a tragic-comedy.

[AgnosticBoy]

Anyone who follows international geopolitics will understand that Russia fears a similar fate, that it will - like Yugoslavia - be eventually fragmented, dismantled and exploited for its resources, that fear is entirely rational IMHO given the insidious ongoing expansion of NATO.

We should expect for Russia to not want a military threat in their backyard just as the US doesn't want a military threat (e.g. the Cuban missile crisis) in their backyard. But again, I still think Russia's attack on Ukraine was unjustified unless the Ukranian's posed a real military threat which they did not, especially not even being part of NATO.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Anyone who follows international geopolitics will understand that Russia fears a similar fate, that it will - like Yugoslavia - be eventually fragmented, dismantled and exploited for its resources, that fear is entirely rational IMHO given the insidious ongoing expansion of NATO.

We should expect for Russia to not want a military threat in their backyard just as the US doesn't want a military threat (e.g. the Cuban missile crisis) in their backyard. But again, I still think Russia's attack on Ukraine was unjustified unless the Ukranian's posed a real military threat which they did not, especially not even being part of NATO.

I wonder how the US government would react if California became an independent sovereign country and was expressing an interest in joining a military alliance with say China, and already receiving weapons shipments from China. I doubt they'd sit and watch it unfold.

The press in the West is frankly disgusting, not a trace of dissent, no mention of the rank hypocrisy. Ukraine already experienced a military coup, overthrowing the democratically elected government in 2014, the West actively supported and enabled this, not a mention of this today, where Ukraine is heralded as a "democracy", the country has a very poor ranking actually in terms of expected democratic characteristics.

[Jose Fly]

Let's not mince words here, Ukraine is a sovereign country that has a right to exist and determine its own fate. Ukraine did not attack Russia nor did they threaten to do so in any way. Putin and Russia do not get to invade a sovereign country and kill its citizens just because they don't like their political decisions. There's a reason the developed world is standing with Ukraine and is isolating Russia.....the invasion is unjustified, wrong, and evil.

Two things stand out to me the most about this. First, if Putin really is concerned about neighboring countries aligning with the EU and NATO, this invasion is likely to backfire on him. Sweden and Finland are now looking into joining NATO for example. Second, as someone who grew up during the Reagan years, I never thought I'd see the day when (some) Republicans/conservatives/Christians are the ones defending and excusing a Russian invasion of sovereign country. Polls have shown that Republican voters have a more favorable view of Putin than they do of Pres. Biden and they view Putin as a "very strong leader". I'd seen studies showing that evangelical Christians tend towards authoritarianism, so I guess we're seeing how that mentality is applied in the real world.

[Sherlock Holmes]

The military assault on Ukraine is a violation of international law according to the UN Charter, of that there's no doubt (one could argue the legitimacy of the current Ukraine government given they violently overthrew the prior democratically elected government in 2014, but I won't digress).

But such violations of sovereignty and international law (as defined by the UN Charter) are actually quite commonplace, many eliciting little if any disapproval from Republican and Democrats alike or the dominant Western newspapers.

So the question arises, should we oppose such violations of international law uniformly or selectively, only opposing and objecting to those violations carried out by foreign governments? governments not regarded by us as "allies"?

[AgnosticBoy]

Besides the 180° turn from traditional Republican politics, to what extent are these events relevant to Christianity?

Second, as someone who grew up during the Reagan years, I never thought I'd see the day when (some) Republicans/conservatives/Christians are the ones defending and excusing a Russian invasion of sovereign country. Polls have shown that Republican voters have a more favorable view of Putin than they do of Pres. Biden and they view Putin as a "very strong leader". I'd seen studies showing that evangelical Christians tend towards authoritarianism, so I guess we're seeing how that mentality is applied in the real world.

Republicans support Russia invading Ukraine? What is the evidence? Poll numbers?

I'm asking because I've seen every news station coverage, from Fox News to MSNBC. All seem to condemn Russia including their guest speakers/commentators. Tucker Carlson and Trump made some remarks but that's just two people, certainly shouldn't draw conclusions based on that alone. If I can find a poll then I'll be sure to post that here.