Is Socialism Moral? Especially, Christian?

[Purple Knight]

The question for debate is whether a socialist system is closer to how Jesus intended people to behave than a capitalist one.

The sub-question is for those who think socialism is moral whether that was inspired by religion or not: If a country's laws were very close to what Jesus (or your morality) taught, but as a consequence, the country was a very bad place to live, would you move there? For example, a country that has a lot of assault because it is a law that you turn the other cheek and don't hit back, and you'll be punished for retaliating. Or a country where ministers roam around, imbued with legal authority, and they decide when you must sell all your possessions and give to the poor, including your house and car.

It's very easy to have high morals when the consequences are less present because the system you happen to live in works to protect you from them. Is there something extra moral about choosing to live where the system doesn't do that? Or is it just foolish? Because perhaps the goal is to have and hold the highest morals possible and if you've been given an ivory tower with which to protect them, that's simply a logical choice to achieve maximum morality.

[marke]

[Replying to marke in post #88]

Communists steal the earned wealth of capitalist workers to fund themselves and their leftist agenda.

How are communists stealing the earned wealth of capitalist workers when the earned wealth of capitalist workers goes to make capitalist owners wealthy?

Communism redistributes the real wealth earned by free enterprise workers, not counterfeit wealth created by printing presses and government ruse.

[marke]

The majority of those who falsely accuse poor Christians of refusing to help the poor are those who never give a dime of their own hoarded wealth to help the poor.

And you've got that wrong.
It is the RICH Christians who should be helping the poor...how can you get that so wrong?!
It's no good for careless Christians to point to pagans who might be greedy because Christians are supposed to follow the example of Jesus... not pagans!

Romans 15:26
For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

Look at that, the Macedonians and Achaians making contributions to the poor of Jerusalem... How kind!
Even they would look down on fat rich Christians who grasp their dollars to themselves like Scrooges.

Is Jesus angry with 'rich' Christians who do not give away all their wealth to the poor while coddling non-Christian millionaires and billionaires who do nothing to help the poor? Why are atheists so upset about Christians not giving away all their money while atheists give nothing to the poor?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to marke in post #92]

Is Jesus angry with 'rich' Christians who do not give away all their wealth to the poor while coddling non-Christian millionaires and billionaires who do nothing to help the poor?

Are you arguing that Christians have a right to hoard their wealth if non-Christians hoard theirs? Isn't there supposed to be a difference between Christians and non-Christians?

The super-rich wouldn't have to give away anywhere near all of their wealth to lift the poor out of poverty, but react as if parting with even a tiny fraction of it would leave them destitute.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to marke in post #91]

Communism redistributes the real wealth earned by free enterprise workers

Capitalism takes the real wealth earned by workers and distributes it upward to a management class which doesn't earn it.

[marke]

[Replying to marke in post #92]

Is Jesus angry with 'rich' Christians who do not give away all their wealth to the poor while coddling non-Christian millionaires and billionaires who do nothing to help the poor?

Are you arguing that Christians have a right to hoard their wealth if non-Christians hoard theirs? Isn't there supposed to be a difference between Christians and non-Christians?

The super-rich wouldn't have to give away anywhere near all of their wealth to lift the poor out of poverty, but react as if parting with even a tiny fraction of it would leave them destitute.

I find it easy to ignore the false allegations leveled by leftists with ridiculous arguments against Christians claiming Christians dishonor God by refusing to give away all their wealth to the poor and refusing to take up their crosses to follow Jesus.

[marke]

[Replying to marke in post #91]

Communism redistributes the real wealth earned by free enterprise workers

Capitalism takes the real wealth earned by workers and distributes it upward to a management class which doesn't earn it.

Where does capitalism make workers rich? Certainly not in communist nations lacking the vibrant economic environments provided by free market entrepreneurs in a protected free market society.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to marke in post #95]

I find it easy to ignore the false allegations leveled by leftists with ridiculous arguments against Christians claiming Christians dishonor God by refusing to give away all their wealth to the poor and refusing to take up their crosses to follow Jesus.

I didn't allege anything. I asked if that was what you were arguing.

[oldbadger]

Is Jesus angry with 'rich' Christians who do not give away all their wealth to the poor while coddling non-Christian millionaires and billionaires who do nothing to help the poor?

All their wealth? !!!!! If richer Christians would give SOME of their wealth then that might be better, and taxation to provide help to the disabled, unemployed and sick might be more possible.

Why are atheists so upset about Christians not giving away all their money while atheists give nothing to the poor?

Huh? All their money? Your republican Christians don't want to give any money!
And you have no idea about what other religions, agnostics or atheist might give.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to marke in post #96]

Where does capitalism make workers rich? Certainly not in communist nations lacking the vibrant economic environments provided by free market entrepreneurs in a protected free market society.

Capitalists and their supporters have almost always opposed measures designed to lessen or eliminate poverty. They blocked minimum wage laws often for many years, and when such laws were passed, they blocked raising the minimums (as they have done in the United States since 2009). Capitalists similarly opposed laws outlawing or limiting child labour, reducing the length of the working day, providing unemployment compensation, establishing government pension systems such as Social Security, providing a national health insurance system, challenging gender and racial discrimination against women and people of colour, or providing a universal basic income. Capitalists have led opposition to progressive tax systems, occupational safety and health systems, and free universal education from preschool through university. Capitalists have opposed unions for the last 150 years and likewise restricted collective bargaining for large classes of workers. They have opposed socialist, communist, and anarchist organizations aimed at organizing the poor to demand relief from poverty.
https://canadiandimension.com/articles/ ... -is-a-myth

[marke]

Is Jesus angry with 'rich' Christians who do not give away all their wealth to the poor while coddling non-Christian millionaires and billionaires who do nothing to help the poor?

All their wealth? !!!!! If richer Christians would give SOME of their wealth then that might be better, and taxation to provide help to the disabled, unemployed and sick might be more possible.

Marke: I believe I am rich even though I am retired and my income level is below the American poverty line, Yet I give more than 5% of my income to the poor and have been doing so for decades. I have no respect for rich democrats who criticize Christians while giving nothing of their hoarded wealth to those in need. How much of his tens of millions of dollars has Obama given to the needy? Certainly not 5%, so I rest my case.
Why are atheists so upset about Christians not giving away all their money while atheists give nothing to the poor?

Huh? All their money? Your republican Christians don't want to give any money!
And you have no idea about what other religions, agnostics or atheist might give.

Marke: I oppose the rich in government confiscating worthy portions of the wealth of their 'subjects' in order to satisfy Jesus' command to give money to the poor.