What's wrong with being gay?

[Daedalus X]

This thread is a continuation of an off topic conversation from here.

First, I think that we all agree that it's important to promote understanding, respect, and equality for all individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. Everyone should be treated with dignity and allowed to express their identity without fear of discrimination or harm.


Question for debate is LGTBQIA2S+ a harmless social contagion, or are there serious unintended consequences awaiting the individuals and societies that are going down this road?

[brunumb]

I'm not attracted to men.

Such a thing is not a choice I could make.

I used to gag from spoiled milk before anyone in my family even knew the milk was bad. But, when I got married my wife ate very healthy foods that I could not stand, the worst was kefir, she would make it at home by leaving milk sitting on the kitchen counter for two days and it was nasty. But she would add a little bit to my yogurt everyday along with a bit of honey, and she would gradually increase the amount of kefir in the yogurt. By the time I realized that she was doing it, I had become accustomed to it and did not mind it. I no longer eat any of the junk food that I was so attracted to and eat only healthy foods including a cup of kefir. It is just amazing how many things we can learn to like if we just want to do it.

Do you think the same thing would happen if your wife brought over a man who
'played' with you a little bit, then a bit more, and a bit more, until you actually enjoyed it? Perhaps you would no longer enjoy her having learned to enjoy the male company more. Do you really believe that you can reduce it all to that level of simplicity?

[Clownboat]

If it is not a human rights issue, then we can denny LGBTQ the right to marry.

It is evil to restrict something you hold dear for yourself from another consenting human.

Just like we would denny a father (who just lost his wife to cancer) the right to marry his 16 year old daughter.

For the love of all that is holy, please tell me that marrying your 16 year old daughter is not something you hold dear for yourself!

Or would you say "love is love" and if the daughter is willing then you would be fine with it?

Marrying one of my children is not something I hold dear for myself. Please tell me you share in not holding it dear to yourself to marry children!

A lot of people were denied the right to marry due to Covid and I am sure that most officials would not marry people who have the flu as well. We do not choose to be mentally ill or perverted, but there are choices the we can make to bring us into such states. I would say if we choose to take drugs like LSD we increase our chances of developing schizophrenia. And similarly our choices will predispose us to many other conditions.

What point were you attempting to make?
My point is that I hold being married to my wife as dear to me. It would be evil for me to restrict marriage between two adults (the thing I hold dear) because they are interracial, or because they are Christians, or because they are poor or because they are gay. You don't seem to be able to grasp this as you bring up a father marrying a daughter, something I truly hope you don't hold dear.

I think it would be silly to justify human behavior based on animals.

Humans are animals though.

Shall we pee on every fire hydrant that we pass, roll around in poop, sniff each others butts when we meet a stranger or hump someones leg for fun, shall men fight each other to get a female for mating. How would you like it if we gave each other a Bonobo handshake every time we meet.

Are these things you hold dear for yourself? Let's go with the sniffing of butts. If you were to really, really hold dear to being able to sniff the butts of those who would allow you, would you find it to be evil to not allow Chinese people, because they are Chinese to not be allowed to sniff butts? Surely you would need better reasoning then because their Chinese to restrict something you love (sniffing butts)?

I used to gag from spoiled milk before anyone in my family even knew the milk was bad. But, when I got married my wife ate very healthy foods that I could not stand, the worst was kefir, she would make it at home by leaving milk sitting on the kitchen counter for two days and it was nasty. But she would add a little bit to my yogurt everyday along with a bit of honey, and she would gradually increase the amount of kefir in the yogurt. By the time I realized that she was doing it, I had become accustomed to it and did not mind it. I no longer eat any of the junk food that I was so attracted to and eat only healthy foods including a cup of kefir. It is just amazing how many things we can learn to like if we just want to do it.

What an odd way of saying that you could walk in to a gay bar and be aroused by a man dancing on the stage. I do not share this ability with you as it is not a choice I could make.

[LittleNipper]

If it is not a human rights issue, then we can denny LGBTQ the right to marry.

It is evil to restrict something you hold dear for yourself from another consenting human.

Just like we would denny a father (who just lost his wife to cancer) the right to marry his 16 year old daughter.

For the love of all that is holy, please tell me that marrying your 16 year old daughter is not something you hold dear for yourself!

Or would you say "love is love" and if the daughter is willing then you would be fine with it?

Marrying one of my children is not something I hold dear for myself. Please tell me you share in not holding it dear to yourself to marry children!

A lot of people were denied the right to marry due to Covid and I am sure that most officials would not marry people who have the flu as well. We do not choose to be mentally ill or perverted, but there are choices the we can make to bring us into such states. I would say if we choose to take drugs like LSD we increase our chances of developing schizophrenia. And similarly our choices will predispose us to many other conditions.

What point were you attempting to make?
My point is that I hold being married to my wife as dear to me. It would be evil for me to restrict marriage between two adults (the thing I hold dear) because they are interracial, or because they are Christians, or because they are poor or because they are gay. You don't seem to be able to grasp this as you bring up a father marrying a daughter, something I truly hope you don't hold dear.

I think it would be silly to justify human behavior based on animals.

Humans are animals though.

Shall we pee on every fire hydrant that we pass, roll around in poop, sniff each others butts when we meet a stranger or hump someones leg for fun, shall men fight each other to get a female for mating. How would you like it if we gave each other a Bonobo handshake every time we meet.

Are these things you hold dear for yourself? Let's go with the sniffing of butts. If you were to really, really hold dear to being able to sniff the butts of those who would allow you, would you find it to be evil to not allow Chinese people, because they are Chinese to not be allowed to sniff butts? Surely you would need better reasoning then because their Chinese to restrict something you love (sniffing butts)?

I used to gag from spoiled milk before anyone in my family even knew the milk was bad. But, when I got married my wife ate very healthy foods that I could not stand, the worst was kefir, she would make it at home by leaving milk sitting on the kitchen counter for two days and it was nasty. But she would add a little bit to my yogurt everyday along with a bit of honey, and she would gradually increase the amount of kefir in the yogurt. By the time I realized that she was doing it, I had become accustomed to it and did not mind it. I no longer eat any of the junk food that I was so attracted to and eat only healthy foods including a cup of kefir. It is just amazing how many things we can learn to like if we just want to do it.

What an odd way of saying that you could walk in to a gay bar and be aroused by a man dancing on the stage. I do not share this ability with you as it is not a choice I could make.

It is evil to equate gay sex equal to procreation sex. Sex for sex sake is inferior to sex for the purpose of procreation. The smell of rotting fish and fecal matter is disgusting to most people. And both rotten fish and fecal matter is dangerous to one's health.

[oldbadger]

Do you think the same thing would happen if your wife brought over a man who 'played' with you a little bit, then a bit more, and a bit more, until you actually enjoyed it? Perhaps you would no longer enjoy her having learned to enjoy the male company more. Do you really believe that you can reduce it all to that level of simplicity?

You sent this to Daedalus X.
How do you think that Daedalus X would react if his wife brought home a woman 'who played with him a little bit'?

Are you married?

[Clownboat]

It is evil to equate gay sex equal to procreation sex.

Please show that you speak the truth.

Sex for sex sake is inferior to sex for the purpose of procreation.

Incorrect. I know this to be a fact as I have enjoyed both and one type of sex is in fact not inferior to the other.

The smell of rotting fish and fecal matter is disgusting to most people. And both rotten fish and fecal matter is dangerous to one's health.

Therefore what?

"The sky is blue!" What does he win Johnny?

[Purple Knight]

Do you think the same thing would happen if your wife brought over a man who
'played' with you a little bit, then a bit more, and a bit more, until you actually enjoyed it? Perhaps you would no longer enjoy her having learned to enjoy the male company more. Do you really believe that you can reduce it all to that level of simplicity?

I think the right parallel here is a male who 100% passes as a female. Then after that encounter is positive, one that is still very very hot, but, you kind of know.

Most people (including myself) would be grossed out the moment we learned the first one was male.

Habituation to taste is different, because it is the sensation itself, directly, that induces the ick reaction. The higher brain didn't get a say. However, some people are just very, very straight. In those, the ick reaction seems to come in at least some measure from the idea of the thing being done, and it's not as direct as taste.

I don't think there's any shame in that because the people who have that ick reaction, reproduce at a higher rate. So even if you say, it is wrong, like you may say, that chipmunk hoarding so much food he will never need is hurting others with his senseless greed, okay fine, he ought not to do that. But simply having the inclination toward over-hoarding is how his brain evolved, and thinking he should be ashamed of merely wanting more than he needs is baseless.

[LittleNipper]

It is evil to equate gay sex equal to procreation sex.

Please show that you speak the truth.

Sex for sex sake is inferior to sex for the purpose of procreation.

Incorrect. I know this to be a fact as I have enjoyed both and one type of sex is in fact not inferior to the other.

The smell of rotting fish and fecal matter is disgusting to most people. And both rotten fish and fecal matter is dangerous to one's health.

Therefore what?

"The sky is blue!" What does he win Johnny?

You seem bent on being able to do whatever you wish no matter what the end result. Sodomy cannot procreate another individual. GOD blessing is not upon it ---- go read the Bible and the truth will set you free.

[Clownboat]

It is evil to equate gay sex equal to procreation sex.

Please show that you speak the truth.

Sex for sex sake is inferior to sex for the purpose of procreation.

Incorrect. I know this to be a fact as I have enjoyed both and one type of sex is in fact not inferior to the other.

The smell of rotting fish and fecal matter is disgusting to most people. And both rotten fish and fecal matter is dangerous to one's health.

Therefore what?

"The sky is blue!" What does he win Johnny?

You seem bent on being able to do whatever you wish no matter what the end result. Sodomy cannot procreate another individual. GOD blessing is not upon it ---- go read the Bible and the truth will set you free.

It is obvious to me that you do not have a God on your side helping you to debate and that you are also unable to show you speak the truth. Why do you think that is?

I was a born again, tongue talking, street evangelizing, drunk in the Holy Ghost Christian for two decades that has read the Bible from cover to cover by the way, but you continue to pretend what you will in order to maintain your religious beliefs. Perhaps one day you will be set free from your beliefs...

[boatsnguitars]

is LGTBQIA2S+ a harmless social contagion

Yes.

, or are there serious unintended consequences awaiting the individuals and societies that are going down this road?

There is a danger: that bigots will make gay LGBTQ+ people's lives miserable. Therefore, Bigotry is the contagion that ought to be eradicated.

[Clownboat]

There is a danger: that bigots will make gay LGBTQ+ people's lives miserable.

big·ot
/ˈbiɡət/
noun
plural noun: bigots
a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

Why would it be deemed reasonable to expect a bigot to not make some people's lives miserable? There are a bigot by definition in your scenario.
You're basically saying that bigots will be bigots, something we all know already. Bigots will continue to be bigots by the way, with or without LGBTQ+ peoples, religious peoples or those of a race other then their own.

What you fear will be a danger just seems to be an aspect of bigotry, so I am not understanding your point. Surely it's not that bigots will be bigots, yet that is all your statement seems to be currently.

Therefore, Bigotry is the contagion that ought to be eradicated.

Careful now. A bigot might see this as hate speech (eradicated relays violence) towards them.
Should we put to death anyone that is somehow deemed to be unreasonably attached to a belief or opinion? Just imagine the Holy Wars we could justify! What if you feel a person is being prejudiced or antagonistic towards a person or people? Can we then eradicate them? Perhaps we can torture them for a while before we eradicate them?

Your thoughts?