Exodus Intl Closes doors

[DanieltheDragon]

Exodus a leading ex-gay ministry closed its doors and issued an apology for the harm it has caused to the gay community.

Does this influence the way you view homosexuality as a choice?

they operated for 40 years claiming they could cure homosexuality even their leader claimed he used to be gay. After 40 years they admitted they were wrong and their president admitted he was never cured.

[connermt]

Exodus a leading ex-gay ministry closed its doors and issued an apology for the harm it has caused to the gay community.

Does this influence the way you view homosexuality as a choice?

they operated for 40 years claiming they could cure homosexuality even their leader claimed he used to be gay. After 40 years they admitted they were wrong and their president admitted he was never cured.

I've said this before, but I'll do it again:
I once saw an interview with a minister on TV that said (paraphrased) that even if it's proven 100% that being gay isn't a choice, it will still be a sin.

You see, many believers don't accept science that interferes with their mythical beliefs, and accept those that do. No matter what, they will continue to wallow in their beliefs. Those people will never change. Fortunately, they seem to be the minority. Unfortunately, they seem to have the loudest mouths.
The same can be said of non-believers, though they don't seem to be as entrenched in their beliefs as "true believers".

I would disagree with that TV minister, same-sex feelings aren't a sin, homosexual behavior isn't. No different than being tempted to adultery or drunkeness isn't a sin, the act very much is.

No doubt most would disagree with that minister, as he was an idiot.
Many also disagree with "the act" as being a sin as well. Fact is, it's the (more) modern interpretation of the bible that indicated it a sin and specifically speaking to men/men, not women/women. Which isn't to be unexpected in a male dominated superstitious society.

Nonsense, as I have demonstrated, the church has held this to be sin since the beginning, and as a matter of fact the NT does address lesbians.

Nonsense is right. You're attributing a concept from "the church" which is made of people not a supernatural deity, based on assumed superstition.
But that's all the bible is - assumed superstition. And when that's all you have to work with.....

Your opinion, which I reject. I believe God is there and is not silent, but has spoken to us through His word. Not that it will convince those on the broad road that leads to destruction.

You can reject anything you want, it doesn't make it so. Selective believing, christianity at its best.

Dup post - please delete

[East of Eden]

Nonsense, as I have demonstrated, the church has held this to be sin since the beginning, and as a matter of fact the NT does address lesbians.

Where does the NT address lesbians? Jesus didn't even mention anything about male homosexuality apart from Matt 19:12 let alone female homosexuality, and Paul didn't write anything about female homosexuality either, including Romans 1:26, and surprise surprise neither did the OT writers.

Oh brother, now you're going to spin Romans 1:26. Its obvious you've got your mind made up.

And what is the published reference for your suggestion that tens of millions of homosexuals have died from aids, given that worldwide most cases of HIV/AIDS are heterosexuals and that the first HIV infections were in heterosexual Africans.

Do you want to claim the gay lifestyle is a healthy one? http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html

[Goat]

Nonsense, as I have demonstrated, the church has held this to be sin since the beginning, and as a matter of fact the NT does address lesbians.

Where does the NT address lesbians? Jesus didn't even mention anything about male homosexuality apart from Matt 19:12 let alone female homosexuality, and Paul didn't write anything about female homosexuality either, including Romans 1:26, and surprise surprise neither did the OT writers.

Oh brother, now you're going to spin Romans 1:26. Its obvious you've got your mind made up.

And what is the published reference for your suggestion that tens of millions of homosexuals have died from aids, given that worldwide most cases of HIV/AIDS are heterosexuals and that the first HIV infections were in heterosexual Africans.

Do you want to claim the gay lifestyle is a healthy one? http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html

Yet, in a study done on STD's in those states that legalized gay marriage, the STD's dropped significantly. It is the ban on gay marriage and the marginalizing it that is the cause of the differences.

http://www.stdtestexpress.com/blog/stud ... f-a-state/

[mitty]

Nonsense, as I have demonstrated, the church has held this to be sin since the beginning, and as a matter of fact the NT does address lesbians.

Where does the NT address lesbians? Jesus didn't even mention anything about male homosexuality apart from Matt 19:12 let alone female homosexuality, and Paul didn't write anything about female homosexuality either, including Romans 1:26, and surprise surprise neither did the OT writers.

Oh brother, now you're going to spin Romans 1:26. Its obvious you've got your mind made up.

And what is the published reference for your suggestion that tens of millions of homosexuals have died from aids, given that worldwide most cases of HIV/AIDS are heterosexuals and that the first HIV infections were in heterosexual Africans.

Do you want to claim the gay lifestyle is a healthy one? http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html

At least I don't have to lie about what Romans 1:26 actually says, or more importantly what it doesn't say.

Do you claim that all the cases of HIV infected children were caused from buggery by marauding mobs of homosexuals and/or lesbians who also lurk under beds with the reds?

[marketandchurch]

Homosexuality, as an acceptable orientation, paired with a war to undo gender and orientation constructs, will increase over the years, slowly, but surely.

Most homosexuals don't choose their orientation, God Forbid anyone every insinuated that notion, because it's just not true, for the vast majority of Gays, who didn't choose their same-sex attraction.

But that doesn't mean that people can't, or won't choose a homosexual orientation. The main impediment to men entertaining bisexual curiousness is the tying of their rigid heterosexual identity, to their male identity. And that is a fact. A male who is perfectly comfortable with their heterosexual identity should be able to make out with another male for a 20 seconds, and say:" you know, I understand why a Gay guy would like this, but it's just not for me... it didn't do anything or me." But as soon as most guys are kissed on the lips by another guy, the reaction is that it is the deepest offense one can commit, as the person who was kissed struggles to cope with their preconceived notions, of the rigidity of their sexuality, and how that has been somewhat shaken, if not raped, by someone of the same sex.

Men have largely helped women embrace bisexuality by dropping their heterosexual expectations for women, largely driven by their sex drives. But males, as a group, are still rather rigid in that regard, and if they redefined manhood in a way where bisexuality was okay, then more of them would be more free, like women, to experiment. In the ancient world, it was very often the preferred living arrangement amongst men.

[DanieltheDragon]

Homosexuality, as an acceptable orientation, paired with a war to undo gender and orientation constructs, will increase over the years, slowly, but surely.

Most homosexuals don't choose their orientation, God Forbid anyone every insinuated that notion, because it's just not true, for the vast majority of Gays, who didn't choose their same-sex attraction.

But that doesn't mean that people can't, or won't choose a homosexual orientation. The main impediment to men entertaining bisexual curiousness is the tying of their rigid heterosexual identity, to their male identity. And that is a fact. A male who is perfectly comfortable with their heterosexual identity should be able to make out with another male for a 20 seconds, and say:" you know, I understand why a Gay guy would like this, but it's just not for me... it didn't do anything or me." But as soon as most guys are kissed on the lips by another guy, the reaction is that it is the deepest offense one can commit, as the person who was kissed struggles to cope with their preconceived notions, of the rigidity of their sexuality, and how that has been somewhat shaken, if not raped, by someone of the same sex.

Men have largely helped women embrace bisexuality by dropping their heterosexual expectations for women, largely driven by their sex drives. But males, as a group, are still rather rigid in that regard, and if they redefined manhood in a way where bisexuality was okay, then more of them would be more free, like women, to experiment. In the ancient world, it was very often the preferred living arrangement amongst men.

I couldn't agree more. We look at both Roman and Greek cultures where homosexuality was not frowned upon bisexual behavior was almost the norm. In a funny twist of fate most people in my childhood assumed I was gay and was heavily made fun of for it I even felt suicidal because I knew at the time this was not true. Eventually I felt that I must be gay since everyone believed I was, so I pretended for a short time to be bi I tried to fit in that way but turns out I am straight on a scale of 1-10 were 1 is straight 10 is gay and 5 is by I would say I am a 1.5-2 when I was trying to act like a 5 needless to say that led to some ackward situations. And is a personal anecdote that you cant choose your sexuality it just is.

[East of Eden]

Nonsense, as I have demonstrated, the church has held this to be sin since the beginning, and as a matter of fact the NT does address lesbians.

Where does the NT address lesbians? Jesus didn't even mention anything about male homosexuality apart from Matt 19:12 let alone female homosexuality, and Paul didn't write anything about female homosexuality either, including Romans 1:26, and surprise surprise neither did the OT writers.

Oh brother, now you're going to spin Romans 1:26. Its obvious you've got your mind made up.

And what is the published reference for your suggestion that tens of millions of homosexuals have died from aids, given that worldwide most cases of HIV/AIDS are heterosexuals and that the first HIV infections were in heterosexual Africans.

Do you want to claim the gay lifestyle is a healthy one? http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html

At least I don't have to lie about what Romans 1:26 actually says, or more importantly what it doesn't say.

No lies here, and I don't think the church had it wrong for 2,000 years only to be corrected by an atheist in Australia with an axe to grind.

Do you claim that all the cases of HIV infected children were caused from buggery by marauding mobs of homosexuals and/or lesbians who also lurk under beds with the reds?

Can you not even be honest enough to admit that gays had a huge part in the spread of AIDS, and that innocent people were affected?

[mitty]

Nonsense, as I have demonstrated, the church has held this to be sin since the beginning, and as a matter of fact the NT does address lesbians.

Where does the NT address lesbians? Jesus didn't even mention anything about male homosexuality apart from Matt 19:12 let alone female homosexuality, and Paul didn't write anything about female homosexuality either, including Romans 1:26, and surprise surprise neither did the OT writers.

Oh brother, now you're going to spin Romans 1:26. Its obvious you've got your mind made up.

And what is the published reference for your suggestion that tens of millions of homosexuals have died from aids, given that worldwide most cases of HIV/AIDS are heterosexuals and that the first HIV infections were in heterosexual Africans.

Do you want to claim the gay lifestyle is a healthy one? http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html

At least I don't have to lie about what Romans 1:26 actually says, or more importantly what it doesn't say.

No lies here, and I don't think the church had it wrong for 2,000 years only to be corrected by an atheist in Australia with an axe to grind.

Do you claim that all the cases of HIV infected children were caused from buggery by marauding mobs of homosexuals and/or lesbians who also lurk under beds with the reds?

Can you not even be honest enough to admit that gays had a huge part in the spread of AIDS, and that innocent people were affected?

Alas Romans 1:26, like the rest of the bible, mentions nothing at all about female homosexuality,

Nah!!! The vast majority of HIV infections worldwide is by heterosexual sex not by homosexuals and particularly not female homosexuals, or are you trying to suggest that the female 50% with HIV are all female homosexuals and that all the infected children were buggered by male and female homosexuals. http://avert.org/worldstats.htm

[East of Eden]

Nonsense, as I have demonstrated, the church has held this to be sin since the beginning, and as a matter of fact the NT does address lesbians.

Where does the NT address lesbians? Jesus didn't even mention anything about male homosexuality apart from Matt 19:12 let alone female homosexuality, and Paul didn't write anything about female homosexuality either, including Romans 1:26, and surprise surprise neither did the OT writers.

Oh brother, now you're going to spin Romans 1:26. Its obvious you've got your mind made up.

And what is the published reference for your suggestion that tens of millions of homosexuals have died from aids, given that worldwide most cases of HIV/AIDS are heterosexuals and that the first HIV infections were in heterosexual Africans.

Do you want to claim the gay lifestyle is a healthy one? http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html

At least I don't have to lie about what Romans 1:26 actually says, or more importantly what it doesn't say.

No lies here, and I don't think the church had it wrong for 2,000 years only to be corrected by an atheist in Australia with an axe to grind.

Do you claim that all the cases of HIV infected children were caused from buggery by marauding mobs of homosexuals and/or lesbians who also lurk under beds with the reds?

Can you not even be honest enough to admit that gays had a huge part in the spread of AIDS, and that innocent people were affected?

Alas Romans 1:26, like the rest of the bible, mentions nothing at all about female homosexuality,

Nonsense, do you know what 'woman' means in Rom. 1:26?

Nah!!! The vast majority of HIV infections worldwide is by heterosexual sex not by homosexuals and particularly not female homosexuals, or are you trying to suggest that the female 50% with HIV are all female homosexuals and that all the infected children were buggered by male and female homosexuals. http://avert.org/worldstats.htm

So to you, AIDS doesn't have an, ahem, special place in the gay world? Wow.....

[mitty]

Nonsense, as I have demonstrated, the church has held this to be sin since the beginning, and as a matter of fact the NT does address lesbians.

Where does the NT address lesbians? Jesus didn't even mention anything about male homosexuality apart from Matt 19:12 let alone female homosexuality, and Paul didn't write anything about female homosexuality either, including Romans 1:26, and surprise surprise neither did the OT writers.

Oh brother, now you're going to spin Romans 1:26. Its obvious you've got your mind made up.

And what is the published reference for your suggestion that tens of millions of homosexuals have died from aids, given that worldwide most cases of HIV/AIDS are heterosexuals and that the first HIV infections were in heterosexual Africans.

Do you want to claim the gay lifestyle is a healthy one? http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html

At least I don't have to lie about what Romans 1:26 actually says, or more importantly what it doesn't say.

No lies here, and I don't think the church had it wrong for 2,000 years only to be corrected by an atheist in Australia with an axe to grind.

Do you claim that all the cases of HIV infected children were caused from buggery by marauding mobs of homosexuals and/or lesbians who also lurk under beds with the reds?

Can you not even be honest enough to admit that gays had a huge part in the spread of AIDS, and that innocent people were affected?

Alas Romans 1:26, like the rest of the bible, mentions nothing at all about female homosexuality,

Nonsense, do you know what 'woman' means in Rom. 1:26?

Nah!!! The vast majority of HIV infections worldwide is by heterosexual sex not by homosexuals and particularly not female homosexuals, or are you trying to suggest that the female 50% with HIV are all female homosexuals and that all the infected children were buggered by male and female homosexuals. http://avert.org/worldstats.htm

So to you, AIDS doesn't have an, ahem, special place in the gay world? Wow.....

So what, where does Romans 1:26 say that the men's women were burning with passion for each other or doing shameful things to each other? Answer: it doesn't, since the bible is about men not women, where women are just regarded as the property of men along with their sheep and goats, and where the lives and behavior of women are the responsibility of men. And where does Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 say that womankind should not lie with womankind as with mankind? And besides,, there are far naughtier things than mankind lying with mankind as with womankind, including giving toddlers Crickett guns for xmas & birthday presents and divorcees who remarry (Mark 10:11-12 Luke 16:18).

Globally, HIV infections of male & female homosexuals are of minor importance compared to heterosexual transmissions and infections, and certainly not of greater importance.