Public Education And Its Flaws.

[WinePusher]

It is my opinion, formed by observations of local schools in my neighborhood, national statistics, and test scores, that public schools and education are failing to adequatly educate our children.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6232
http://www.rense.com/general26/two.htm
http://www.examiner.com/a887710~Two_thi ... dards.html

We know how busineeses become more efficent and productive. You have one coffee shop that has rude waiters, dirty cups, and stale coffee; all you have to do is plant another coffee shop next door and the competition and consumer choice will force that bad coffee shop to either reform and better itself, or go out of businees.

So, why is it private schools tend to perform better than the public schools. I would contend that the structure (uniforms, personal contemplation, ability to express and share ones faith) allows students a better enviroment to mature. But the pivotal reason is that these schools get little to no state funds, they rely on tuition by families. And if these families feel the private schools are under performing, they simply have to take their children out and the school will have to reform itself, or close down. Is it not possible to give parents a choice wen they have to choose a school? What is wrong with the voucher program? Is this administration so beholden to the teachers unions that they cannot allows parents to have a say in their childs educational future?

[chris_brown207]

How exactly has Texas been damaged by their textbooks? They are currently one of the most prosperous states in the nation.

For the record, Texas is my home state and I am a former high school teacher from San Antonio.

I did not say Texas was damaged, I said education was damaged. I was simply agreeing with you, in how you said that false information being injected into text books is damaging to education - and providing another example of this occurring (and the great majority of teachers in Texas are against the School Boards decision to change the curriculum).

[East of Eden]

How exactly has Texas been damaged by their textbooks? They are currently one of the most prosperous states in the nation.

For the record, Texas is my home state and I am a former high school teacher from San Antonio.

I did not say Texas was damaged, I said education was damaged. I was simply agreeing with you, in how you said that false information being injected into text books is damaging to education - and providing another example of this occurring (and the great majority of teachers in Texas are against the School Boards decision to change the curriculum).

I wasn't aware of any false information in TX books. Cite?

[DeBunkem]

Parents do care..employers don't. American families are barely making it and two, three and more incomes leave parents with little to no time to left when they get home from slave wage jobs to help poor kids with academic problems or discipline. Wages are frozen and falling for all but the wealthy, who can afford to have a parent, nannie and/or tutor for their darlings returning from their snooty academies. before Reagan launched the war on the middle and working class, even working class couples could get by on one income, and stories abound of the sacrifices that even single poor parents could make if one income was at least a fair living wage. But someone has to be there to keep the TV off and see that homework gets done. This no longer a concern for the likes of Wal-Mart and whatever other low-wage jobs are still left.

Okay, I spent the vast majority of my academic years in a "snooty academy", as you put it. My parents worked 40+ hours a week, I spent a lot of time at my grandparents' house, and there's been times when I've barely seen my parents. And even with my parents' wages, there's been multiple times when paying my school tuition was tough. But guess what? They still cared, still said 'good job' when I did well, and told me off when I misbehaved or did poorly for lack of trying. I understand some people have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet, but that shouldn't mean neglecting your kids. I know at my sister's school there are plenty of parents there who could help at her school or attend PTA stuff, but do they? No. My parents have made plenty of sacrifices for my education and to be there when I need them. Which is, in my opinion, what a parent is supposed to do. Don't have kids if you can't help make them into a person who will contribute to society, IMO.

Parents don't necessarily have to be around to make sure homework gets done. 90% of the time there was no one riding my shoulder saying do your homework, even when I was young, but I knew what was expected of me, what would do me well in the future, and what would make my parents happy. I think a major problem is that these parents don't expect anything, they seem to live in a world where it's 'expect nothing, and you won't be disappointed.' That may work in some faucets of life, but not in raising children and lying their futures on the line.

I attended a K4 graduation knowing that for a lot of those parents, this may be the last graduation they see, unless their kid's elementary school does 5th grade graduation. And I just wonder what, if anything, they will do to help their kids make it to graduating high school.

There are some anthropologists who note that grandparents are quite often better at taking take of children than the parents.This was even true in tribal times, when all able-bodied adults were either hunting or gathering food for the survival of the tribe. This left grandparents to care for and teach the young. grandparents are experienced and often more patient and observant. it is the norm for many poor lands today, and the reason why public schools in 3rd World don't have US-style delincuency and falling grades. So you got what most kids nowadays do not...the oversight of your own grandparents. Working class parents are often dislocated from their home towns and grandparents are more and more frequently forced to leave retirement and return to work...again thanks to the poor pay ethic of US business and corporate attack on social support.

[DeBunkem]

As long as we're sharing personal experiences, I'll share some of mine.


I attended both public and Catholic schools in my K-12 career, and this was admittedly several decades ago. These schools were in three different states and all in medium to small sized towns except for Kindergarten and First grade were in a large midwestern city.

I didn't experience any real problems with drugs. As far as violence, I did experience some bullying, the worst being in a Catholic school in a small town. I was quite happy toleave that school and go to a public school in the same town.

As a parent, our children have spent most of their time in homeschool situations, some in public schools, and two spent a grade in a private religiously affiliated school. The public school experience has all been within one district in a medium-sized midwestern town (one high school, one middle school, several elementary schools). I woulr rate the public school as reasonably good, but also say the academic standards could be higher. To the extent this is a problem, I attribute it to student apathy, some teachers with poor attitudes, and a small amount of unproductive educational ideology.



On the general issues, I think we need to keep in mind the quality of education and the environment in public schools varies widely. I agree, some public schools have major problems, and I think there are a wide variety of reasons for these, some mentioned above. Parent and child attitude, low funding in some areas, poor teacher attitudes, sometimes turf wars between unions and districts, and I would say a generally lower value put on education in our culture than in many other countries. Anti-intellectualism has a long history in the U.S. and in recent decades, we have also had a rising distrust of anything to do with government, some of which might be justified but some of which is unreasonable or even paranoid. I also agree with the point that public schools need to take all comers, and this makes comparisons with private schools or homeschools (which also outperform public schools on average) not apples to apples comparisons.



To the extent there are problems, what should we do, especially on a national level, about them.

I personally am undecided about vouchers. Wyvern makes a good point that these can have the effect of draining resources from public education and making the situation worse. It would in practice also have the effect of supporting some schools which push sectarian views, some of which are frankly without intellectual merit (e.g. most forms of creationism).

Public education is, in my view, a community resource and good public schools benefit everyone in the community and the larger society. I find a lot of the anti-public school rhetoric these days as quite unproductive. Tearing down public schools, which is what some people on the right including within the homeschool community want to do, and replacing them with private schools is a recipe for fragmentation and polarization, unless private schools and home schools are willing to undergo more regulation than they currently do, which especially homeschoolers are loath to do.


I am not sure what the solution is, but I do think we should do more to improve public schools, and we need to have a more productive and less fractious public discussion about the problems.

Supporting Public schools through bloc grants instead of property taxes will ensure a consistent quality of education no matter what economic situation of any given community. I would guess we are the only western country that doesn't view schooling as a national, not local responsibility.