More proof that fox news misleads its readers.

[nygreenguy]

Those who watched Fox News almost daily were significantly more likely than those who never watched it to believe that most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (12 points more likely), most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points), the economy is getting worse (26 points), most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points), the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points), their own income taxes have gone up (14 points), the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points), when TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it (12 points) and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points). The effect was also not simply a function of partisan bias, as people who voted Democratic and watched Fox News were also more likely to have such misinformation than those who did not watch it--though by a lesser margin than those who voted Republican.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ ... nt=671&lb=


A breakdown of the lies:

* 91 percent believe the stimulus legislation lost jobs
* 72 percent believe the health reform law will increase the deficit
* 72 percent believe the economy is getting worse
* 60 percent believe climate change is not occurring
* 49 percent believe income taxes have gone up
* 63 percent believe the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts
* 56 percent believe Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout
* 38 percent believe that most Republicans opposed TARP
* 63 percent believe Obama was not born in the U.S. (or that it is unclear)

http://www.alternet.org/media/149193/st ... age=entire

So why does fox news exist if it clearly does a poor job of reporting the facts? Could it be that people care more about hearing what they want to hear vs. what is actually happening?

[Grumpy]

cnorman18

Okay, okay! I'll AGREE with you. Fox News lies, and no other media outlet does, evereverever!

This is not what I am getting at. Other networks have dropped inconvenient facts, misreported facts and distorted facts, but they don't(to quote John Stewart) "Make ---- up." Fox does make crap up, with malice aforethought. It's not new, the Hearsts did it too, we called it "Yellow Journalism" then.

You still aren't getting MY point. The way THIS SURVEY was reported, and frankly celebrated, here on this forum, was an example of distortion and selective cherrypicking of facts to serve an agenda, which is ALSO an example of LYING; as I have said elsewhere, a lie by omission is still a lie.

"more proof that fox misleads it's readers"

IE this report is far from the first time this has been pointed out by liberals, but it is substantiation that what the liberals have been saying is truth, produced by actual studies from independent sources. It is evidence that in the case of Fox, the more you watch, the dumber you get(as it pertains to accepting the truth). Other outlets much less so. There is, however no equivalence between the journalistic integrity of someone like Rachel Maddow and any of the shills at Fox, Brent Hume included. Yes, she is liberal, yes she is biased, but she is not a liar and that's the important difference.

Grumpy

[nygreenguy]

You still aren't getting MY point. The way THIS SURVEY was reported, and frankly celebrated, here on this forum, was an example of distortion and selective cherrypicking of facts to serve an agenda, which is ALSO an example of LYING; as I have said elsewhere, a lie by omission is still a lie.

Im not trying to prove evolution by finding a single fossil. I was using this study to give further proof that fox distorts. Thats it.

The study showed that people who listen to msnbc and npr thought wrong things about tarp and political donations.

Fox views dont even think the president is a citizen.
They dont believe in global warming.

There is a huge difference in the crazy stuff the fox people are uninformed on and the msnbc/npr.

I even showed another story which showed fox viewers were more likely to believe the crazy stuff about iraq, giving the politicians support for the war. Fox distortions are sending us to war.

So yeah, there is a HUGE difference between being "fox" uninformed and being "npr/msnbc" uninformed.

[cnorman18]

Like I said, I AGREE that Fox News is biased, and I even agree that it deliberately provides false information when other networks do that only rarely and without ill intent. I don't deny ANY of that.

I just thought it might be a good thing to look at what that survey, which was published under the title, "Voters Say Election Full of Misleading and False Information" actually said and consider the conclusions of the researchers themselves. My bad. I guess I just don't properly grasp that it's okay for a political agenda to trump the facts and the context in a particular news story when one's agenda is righteous and correct.

No sarcasm intended. Seriously. Fox is -- you'll pardon the dated expression -- "bad news." But really, is there nothing at all of importance or interest in that survey other than that? Does that survey constitute an unequvocal and absolute indictment of Fox editorial policy, and does it prove that there are no other factors involved? To read the remarks here, one would think so.

Maybe I should watch Fox more. I guess I'm just not properly outraged.

[nygreenguy]

Like I said, I AGREE that Fox News is biased, and I even agree that it deliberately provides false information when other networks do that only rarely and without ill intent. I don't deny ANY of that.

I just thought it might be a good thing to look at what that survey, which was published under the title, "Voters Say Election Full of Misleading and False Information" actually said and consider the conclusions of the researchers themselves. My bad. I guess I just don't properly grasp that it's okay for a political agenda to trump the facts and the context in a particular news story when one's agenda is righteous and correct.

Many times researchers will read articles and pull aspects out of them to supplement their own research. This is no different. I am simply taking their raw data of fox viewers being uninformed on a few specific issues and applying it to my own theory.

Does that survey constitute an unequvocal and absolute indictment of Fox editorial policy, and does it prove that there are no other factors involved?[/i] To read the remarks here, one would think so.

No, but it correlates with other evidence and supports my theory.

Maybe I should watch Fox more. I guess I'm just not properly outraged.

Dont. According to the survey, even non-republicans are adversely affected!

[cnorman18]

Like I said, I AGREE that Fox News is biased, and I even agree that it deliberately provides false information when other networks do that only rarely and without ill intent. I don't deny ANY of that.

I just thought it might be a good thing to look at what that survey, which was published under the title, "Voters Say Election Full of Misleading and False Information" actually said and consider the conclusions of the researchers themselves. My bad. I guess I just don't properly grasp that it's okay for a political agenda to trump the facts and the context in a particular news story when one's agenda is righteous and correct.

Many times researchers will read articles and pull aspects out of them to supplement their own research. This is no different. I am simply taking their raw data of fox viewers being uninformed on a few specific issues and applying it to my own theory.

Point taken. Sorry we got off on the wrong foot.

Does that survey constitute an unequvocal and absolute indictment of Fox editorial policy, and does it prove that there are no other factors involved?[/i] To read the remarks here, one would think so.

No, but it correlates with other evidence and supports my theory.

Agreed, but with reservations as noted. I think the instances of falsehoods being broadcast on the record and GOP memos being used on the air is better evidence for Fox's failings than the survey at hand; THAT seems indicative of a more general problem, and the fact that Fox is worse than others seems to me incidental to that. It looks to me like the researchers would hold that view too.

Maybe I should watch Fox more. I guess I'm just not properly outraged.

Dont. According to the survey, even non-republicans are adversely affected!

Lost my taste for Fox a long time ago. I think the conservative point of view deserves to be heard, but not at the expense of truth or accuracy or integrity in journalism. I have no problem with commentators commentating; that's what they do. But they ought not distort or falsify the facts, make assumptions that aren't warranted, nor misuse information in a way that wasn't intended.

[nygreenguy]

Lost my taste for Fox a long time ago. I think the conservative point of view deserves to be heard, but not at the expense of truth or accuracy or integrity in journalism. I have no problem with commentators commentating; that's what they do. But they ought not distort or falsify the facts, make assumptions that aren't warranted, nor misuse information in a way that wasn't intended.

My biggest issue with all news outlets is that opinion and news have become virtually indistinguishable.

[WinePusher]

Let's walk through each of these "lies" one by one.

* 91 percent believe the stimulus legislation lost jobs

This is mis-represenation of the other side. No one is saying the recovery cost the nation a gross amount of jobs, what is being said is that the projected result of the recovery was overestimated and ill concieved by the Congressional Leadership and President.

* 72 percent believe the health reform law will increase the deficit

It doesn't affect the deficit directly, it cuts medicare and increases taxes. The fact is dems have been running behind the "deficit neutral" banner in order to make it seem that Obamacare is some sort of free, no exspense gift when there is a heavy cost that comes with it. All we got as assurance that this would be deficit neutral are projected CBO numbers based on unsettled data.

* 72 percent believe the economy is getting worse

It is. Many have predicted a double dip in the housing market, public sector jobs are increasing while private sector jobs remain stagnate, our dollar is being abused and devalued by excessive printing by the fed, and our deficit is being added onto rather then being cut. Compare Public Sector Job losses with Private Sector Job losses and you'll see huge differences, the government workforce has been growing substantially in this reccession.

And everyones seems to be turning a blind eye to inflation nowadays. The world's fiat currencies are failing one by one, and the dollars about to go the same route as the euro. Luckily, Ron Paul is taking over the House Subcommittee on Monentary Policy so the sound ideas of a gold standard and the auditing of the fed will be more potent in D.C

* 60 percent believe climate change is not occurring

Climate Change is something nobody can beat. First, one of the predictions is warmer weather, now since the weather has been extremely cold for the past few years the followers of this idea predict cold weather will be the result of Global Warming. You can't beat it, it's unfalsifiable.

* 56 percent believe Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout
* 38 percent believe that most Republicans opposed TARP

Bush enacted TARP towards the end of his administration, Obama continued and further expanded it. Both underminded the free market and both should be held in contempt for doing so. It's very simple, those people who gave out bad loans should be punished with failure for their choices, not rewarded with a bailout.

[micatala]

Let's walk through each of these "lies" one by one.

* 91 percent believe the stimulus legislation lost jobs

This is mis-represenation of the other side. No one is saying the recovery cost the nation a gross amount of jobs, what is being said is that the projected result of the recovery was overestimated and ill concieved by the Congressional Leadership and President.

Some are saying what you have here. Quite a few others have repeatedly referred to the "jobless stimulus" and that it did not create any jobs, or that we lost a lot of jobs anyway so it did not do any good. The stimulus and its effects were clearly misrepresented, sometimes blatantly so, by FOX and a lot of Republican congresspersons and candidates.

* 72 percent believe the health reform law will increase the deficit

It doesn't affect the deficit directly, it cuts medicare and increases taxes. The fact is dems have been running behind the "deficit neutral" banner in order to make it seem that Obamacare is some sort of free, no exspense gift when there is a heavy cost that comes with it. All we got as assurance that this would be deficit neutral are projected CBO numbers based on unsettled data.

It is true that the deficit neutral claim is based on CBO. I won't object to people not taking the CBO estimates as gospel. But, they are still the best estimates we have. One ad I saw during the 2010 election cycle claimed that the health care bill added $2 trillion to the deficit. No evidence was provided for this. Is such a claim and out and out lie? Well, it would seem to me it is based on the evidence.

* 72 percent believe the economy is getting worse

It is. Many have predicted a double dip in the housing market, public sector jobs are increasing while private sector jobs remain stagnate, our dollar is being abused and devalued by excessive printing by the fed, and our deficit is being added onto rather then being cut. Compare Public Sector Job losses with Private Sector Job losses and you'll see huge differences, the government workforce has been growing substantially in this reccession.

The principal measure of the economy getting better or worse is the GDP. By that measure, the economy has not been getting worse for some time now, but is getting better.

Unemployment is still high, so by that measure, the economy is not getting better, although it is arguably not getting worse either.

To me, the claim "the economy is getting worse" is somewhat subjective. My argument with FOX and the Reps on this is that the cherry pick the evidence, and try to paint the worst possible picture by doing so. This is at bottom dishonest, even if the claim is not an out and out lie.

* 60 percent believe climate change is not occurring

Climate Change is something nobody can beat. First, one of the predictions is warmer weather, now since the weather has been extremely cold for the past few years the followers of this idea predict cold weather will be the result of Global Warming. You can't beat it, it's unfalsifiable.

I heard Hannity claim on his show that Global Warming is a hoax, and that is is not happening.

That if empirically false, no question about it.

In this case, FOX is clearly lying, not doubt about it.

* 56 percent believe Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout
* 38 percent believe that most Republicans opposed TARP

Bush enacted TARP towards the end of his administration, Obama continued and further expanded it. Both underminded the free market and both should be held in contempt for doing so. It's very simple, those people who gave out bad loans should be punished with failure for their choices, not rewarded with a bailout.

You are not addressing the facts, but are giving your opinion of the wisdom of the policies.

It is false that Obama initiated talk of the auto bailouts, and that most Republicans opposed TARP. Both may have been mistakes, but that does not change the facts.



I think the evidence in this survey does show that a lot of the public, and those viewing FOX moreso than others, have false impressions.

I think the best explanation is that the lies, mischaracterizations, and spin from FOX have an effect on what people who watch FOX believe.

[WinePusher]

It is. Many have predicted a double dip in the housing market, public sector jobs are increasing while private sector jobs remain stagnate, our dollar is being abused and devalued by excessive printing by the fed, and our deficit is being added onto rather then being cut. Compare Public Sector Job losses with Private Sector Job losses and you'll see huge differences, the government workforce has been growing substantially in this reccession.

The principal measure of the economy getting better or worse is the GDP. By that measure, the economy has not been getting worse for some time now, but is getting better.

The GDP is made up of a variety of factors that don't include employment and deficit rates. GDP is primarily based on Consumer Confidence, which is based on Employment levels. If unemployment is high one should expect consumer confidence to be relatively low. Your argument is dismantled by the fact that the supposed minor "growth" we're currently seeing means we're verging on a double dip. It's essentially a phony, fake, fraudulent recovery that leads to another, worse reccession.

The reason why Fox and other Conservative pundits are saying what they're saying about the economy is because the policies of Obama are by in large harmful to long term growth. The stimulus was not relief for the private sector, it was a package drawn up by the Center for American Progress that expanded government sector jobs and was filled with Congressional earmarks. Why do you think unemployment is low within the government? Well, I can think of no better place where your job is so secure, where the benefits and pensions are so high, and where you don't have to worry about competition.

To me, the claim "the economy is getting worse" is somewhat subjective. My argument with FOX and the Reps on this is that the cherry pick the evidence, and try to paint the worst possible picture by doing so. This is at bottom dishonest, even if the claim is not an out and out lie.

To claim that the economy is getting better is also subjective, Obama is basing his success off of how many jobs he has "saved." That is not the standard measurement of growth, we don't go by how many jobs are saved, we go by how many jobs are created. It is not growth or an indicator of economic improvement if I have 100 jobs which are destined to be lost, but I manage to save 10-20 of those jobs. In the end, I have a net loss of 80 jobs and if the trend continues then the loss of jobs becomes greater then the number of jobs saved.

Climate Change is something nobody can beat. First, one of the predictions is warmer weather, now since the weather has been extremely cold for the past few years the followers of this idea predict cold weather will be the result of Global Warming. You can't beat it, it's unfalsifiable.

I heard Hannity claim on his show that Global Warming is a hoax, and that is is not happening. That if empirically false, no question about it. In this case, FOX is clearly lying, not doubt about it.

Regarding the Science behind Global Warming

Aren't falsifiability and predictions the two hallmarks of any scientific model or theory? Let's settle this here and now, what exact predictions should we expect if Drastic and Imminent Global Warming were occurring and what would falsify these predictions. It seems that the Global Warming group these days conforms the current climate state to fit their preconceived ideas. The fact is, the earths climate is not continually in stasis. It fluctuates and and inconsistent, we have warming and cooling trends. We may be experiencing a warming trend at the present time just as we have experienced cooling patterns in the past.

Regarding the Policies and Implication of Global Warming

Will you agree that the left is riding the wave of Global Warming in order to pass their agenda and policies? Rahm Emmanuel said never to let a crisis go to waste, why is that? Because if there is an immediate danger you can quickly pass policy through without proper scrutiny and debate. Conservatives aren't opposed to the idea of Global Warming, they're opposed to the Left hijacking a crisis and using it to push through totalitarianist legislation that would determine the amount of energy a household can consume, or the type of car a family can buy or that a private car manufacturer can produce. If the planet was warming, let the private sector deal with it instead of sending in the bureaucrats.

Btw, even if Global Warming is true, are we only to go with the Liberal solutions of government control and regulation? How about Nuclear Energy, it seems to be working pretty well for Europe. oh, wait, the enviromentalists won't allow it. As a nation we're dependent on fossil fuels so any immediate shift away from fossil fuels to another type of energy would require dramatic change, which is something the extreme left wants here.

Bush enacted TARP towards the end of his administration, Obama continued and further expanded it. Both underminded the free market and both should be held in contempt for doing so. It's very simple, those people who gave out bad loans should be punished with failure for their choices, not rewarded with a bailout.

You are not addressing the facts, but are giving your opinion of the wisdom of the policies.

It is false that Obama initiated talk of the auto bailouts, and that most Republicans opposed TARP. Both may have been mistakes, but that does not change the facts. I think the evidence in this survey does show that a lot of the public, and those viewing FOX more so than others, have false impressions. I think the best explanation is that the lies, mischaracterizations, and spin from FOX have an effect on what people who watch FOX believe.

Honestly, I don't think it is a fact that anyone on Fox has said that Obama began TARP. Produce a video or audio tape and prove me wrong. Viewers of MSNBC probably think Bush is in Iraq for Oil, so what? If you compare MSNBC to Fox, Fox comes out triumphant. Fox at least has objective news programing and distinguishes between opinion and hard news shows. Fox doesn't have Hannity or Coulter anchoring Election Coverage like MSNBC does.

[nygreenguy]

The GDP is made up of a variety of factors that don't include employment and deficit rates. GDP is primarily based on Consumer Confidence, which is based on Employment levels. If unemployment is high one should expect consumer confidence to be relatively low. Your argument is dismantled by the fact that the supposed minor "growth" we're currently seeing means we're verging on a double dip. It's essentially a phony, fake, fraudulent recovery that leads to another, worse reccession.

I didnt put any focus on the economy stuff because in my opinion, economics is not science in any way, shape or form.

To me, the claim "the economy is getting worse" is somewhat subjective. My argument with FOX and the Reps on this is that the cherry pick the evidence, and try to paint the worst possible picture by doing so. This is at bottom dishonest, even if the claim is not an out and out lie.

To claim that the economy is getting better is also subjective, Obama is basing his success off of how many jobs he has "saved." That is not the standard measurement of growth, we don't go by how many jobs are saved, we go by how many jobs are created. It is not growth or an indicator of economic improvement if I have 100 jobs which are destined to be lost, but I manage to save 10-20 of those jobs. In the end, I have a net loss of 80 jobs and if the trend continues then the loss of jobs becomes greater then the number of jobs saved.

Regarding the Science behind Global Warming

Aren't falsifiability and predictions the two hallmarks of any scientific model or theory? Let's settle this here and now, what exact predictions should we expect if Drastic and Imminent Global Warming were occurring and what would falsify these predictions. It seems that the Global Warming group these days conforms the current climate state to fit their preconceived ideas. The fact is, the earths climate is not continually in stasis. It fluctuates and and inconsistent, we have warming and cooling trends. We may be experiencing a warming trend at the present time just as we have experienced cooling patterns in the past.

The thing people neglect to think about when using the "climate has changed in the past" is the cause. We know the climate has changed in the past, the scientists are not idiots. Whats different now is the cause is anthropogenic and the effect of this is really bad for people. There were not 6 billion people on earth when the climate changed before.

Regarding the Policies and Implication of Global Warming

Will you agree that the left is riding the wave of Global Warming in order to pass their agenda and policies? Rahm Emmanuel said never to let a crisis go to waste, why is that? Because if there is an immediate danger you can quickly pass policy through without proper scrutiny and debate. Conservatives aren't opposed to the idea of Global Warming,

1. "Manmade global warming is a hoax." ~Rush Limbaugh
2. "Right now, the only global warming strategy that might work worldwide may be to pray." ~Bill O'Reilly
3. "It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global warming; it is a scam." ~John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel
4. "The far-left radical Marxists have told the big lie that man is destroying the environment with pollution and that's causing global warming." ~Michael Savage
5. "The Earth will end only when God declares it is time to be over. Man will not destroy this Earth. This Earth will not be destroyed by a flood." ~Rep. John Shimkus, US House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment
6. "You remember the ice age? It's been warmer ever since, and there ain't nothing we can do to stop it." ~Senator Burns (R-Montana)
7. "Man-made global warming is the greatest hoax ever perpetuated on the American people." ~Senator Inhofe (R-Oklahoma), Chair of the Senate Committee on the Environment
8. "Trees cause more pollution than automobiles. Well, maybe Ronald Reagan was a genius." ~Dan Henninger, Deputy Editor for Fox News [Henninger is referring to a scientific publication that suggested trees emitted large amounts of pollution. In a press release published three days before the Editorial Report aired, the study's authors pointed out that human-caused emissions--not natural emissions--"are responsible for the well-documented increasing atmospheric concentrations of methane since pre-industrial times." The authors added that plant emissions do not contribute to "the recent temperature increase known as 'global warming.'"]
9. "The hysteria is what's the myth. Climate changes; it always has. And the idea that man plays such a big part is dubious." ~John Stossel
10. "There's this giant blazing ball of fire in the sky. Could that have anything to do with global warming? Hmm." ~WhatYouOughtToKnow.com
http://www.toptentopten.com/topten/unin ... ng_+quotes

conservatives overwhelmingly agree its not even happening.

they're opposed to the Left hijacking a crisis and using it to push through totalitarianist legislation that would determine the amount of energy a household can consume, or the type of car a family can buy or that a private car manufacturer can produce.

Proof?

If the planet was warming, let the private sector deal with it instead of sending in the bureaucrats.

The private sector is interested in $$$, not doing whats right. They are one of the big ones to blame for whats going on now.

Btw, even if Global Warming is true, are we only to go with the Liberal solutions of government control and regulation? How about Nuclear Energy, it seems to be working pretty well for Europe. oh, wait, the enviromentalists won't allow it. As a nation we're dependent on fossil fuels so any immediate shift away from fossil fuels to another type of energy would require dramatic change, which is something the extreme left wants here.

Im becoming more, and more ok with nuclear. But you see, that statement you just said about fossil fuels was being said in Kennedy's era. Its 50 years later and we are still NOWHERE. People consistently say "not now, maybe later". Its going to come down to the pumps running dry and us going to war before we get a reneawble energy economy.

Honestly, I don't think it is a fact that anyone on Fox has said that Obama began TARP. Produce a video or audio tape and prove me wrong. Viewers of MSNBC probably think Bush is in Iraq for Oil, so what? If you compare MSNBC to Fox, Fox comes out triumphant. Fox at least has objective news programing and distinguishes between opinion and hard news shows. Fox doesn't have Hannity or Coulter anchoring Election Coverage like MSNBC does.

Why are fox viewers consistently misinformed then?