On The Pledge Of Allegience

[JoeyKnothead]

Why is it so necessary to include the words "under God" in the pledge? The addition of these words into the pledge force many people to be unable to pledge their allegience to their own nation. Why is it more important to have a devisive term in a pledge that declares we are indivisible?

[East of Eden]

Why is it so necessary to include the words "under God" in the pledge? The addition of these words into the pledge force many people to be unable to pledge their allegience to their own nation. Why is it more important to have a devisive term in a pledge that declares we are indivisible?

If You Take The Time And Read / Say The Pledge Of Allegience Your'll See It Has Nothing To Do With '' God '' It's All About The Republic !!!!!

Then why bother inserting "under God"?

You kinda make my point. We are asked to pledge allegiance to "the Republic" as being "under God" without any understanding of who this "God" is.

Are you asking who is '' God , Or the concept?

I'm saying the inclusion of "under God" in the PoA is a violation of the principle of separation of Church and State.

You seriously think the Founders would have agreed with you? Which Christian denomination, or even religion, is being established by the Pledge?

[McCulloch]

You seriously think the Founders would have agreed with you? Which Christian denomination, or even religion, is being established by the Pledge?

I was unaware that the first amendment applied only to the establishment of Christian denominations. Someone should send a memo to the Supreme Court justices, they seem to have missed that point. So, is it your legal opinion that to establish a single denomination is prohibited by the first amendment but to establish a related group of religions is allowable?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Page 11 Post 101

I'm saying the inclusion of "under God" in the PoA is a violation of the principle of separation of Church and State.

You seriously think the Founders would have agreed with you? Which Christian denomination, or even religion, is being established by the Pledge?

I don't think we should bind ourselves to what folks hundreds, or thousands of years ago thought.
Where such ideas are no longer useful, I contend they should be abandoned. Much like so much of the Bible has been abandoned as society progresses.

Notice I said nothing about Christianity.

The principle of separation of Church (Religion) and State should preclude any religious notions from encroaching on government functions.

[East of Eden]

You seriously think the Founders would have agreed with you? Which Christian denomination, or even religion, is being established by the Pledge?

I was unaware that the first amendment applied only to the establishment of Christian denominations.

Never said it did.

Someone should send a memo to the Supreme Court justices, they seem to have missed that point. So, is it your legal opinion that to establish a single denomination is prohibited by the first amendment but to establish a related group of religions is allowable?

No.

Maybe you can answer. Which religion is established by having 'God' in the pledge?

[East of Eden]

I don't think we should bind ourselves to what folks hundreds, or thousands of years ago thought.

The intent of the Founders and the Constitution should be abandoned?

Much like so much of the Bible has been abandoned as society progresses.

We differ on the definition of progress.

The principle of separation of Church (Religion) and State should preclude any religious notions from encroaching on government functions.

You inserted 'Religion' where it doesn't belong. The Federal Gov't. is separated from a particular church, not religion in general.

[McCulloch]

You seriously think the Founders would have agreed with you? Which Christian denomination, or even religion, is being established by the Pledge?

I was unaware that the first amendment applied only to the establishment of Christian denominations.

Never said it did.

Someone should send a memo to the Supreme Court justices, they seem to have missed that point. So, is it your legal opinion that to establish a single denomination is prohibited by the first amendment but to establish a related group of religions is allowable?

No.

Maybe you can answer. Which religion is established by having 'God' in the pledge?

Not one single religion but the group of religions which use "God" as the name of their god, that is most monotheist religions. You did admit that establishing a related group of religions is not allowable. Or did you mean that establishing a small group of related religions (for example Baptists, or Roman Catholics) is prohibited by the constitution but establishing a larger group (for example Christians or the Abrahamic religions) is not?

[Kadmon]

Why is it so necessary to include the words "under God" in the pledge? The addition of these words into the pledge force many people to be unable to pledge their allegience to their own nation. Why is it more important to have a devisive term in a pledge that declares we are indivisible?

If You Take The Time And Read / Say The Pledge Of Allegience Your'll See It Has Nothing To Do With '' God '' It's All About The Republic !!!!!

Then why bother inserting "under God"?

You kinda make my point. We are asked to pledge allegiance to "the Republic" as being "under God" without any understanding of who this "God" is.

Are you asking who is '' God , Or the concept?

I'm saying the inclusion of "under God" in the PoA is a violation of the principle of separation of Church and State.

You seriously think the Founders would have agreed with you? Which Christian denomination, or even religion, is being established by the Pledge?

One thing for - sure without All these denomination / sect of these religion maybe yall can get your story Straight . But It's sect-up that way to keep you fighting against other . LOLOLOLOLOL Just look at you argueding over a book , written by man to control the mass .

[East of Eden]

Not one single religion but the group of religions which use "God" as the name of their god, that is most monotheist religions. You did admit that establishing a related group of religions is not allowable. Or did you mean that establishing a small group of related religions (for example Baptists, or Roman Catholics) is prohibited by the constitution but establishing a larger group (for example Christians or the Abrahamic religions) is not?

You're ignoring the fact the Founders assumed America to be a Christian nation, but did not want a particular Christian denomination established by the Federal Gov't. From Joseph Story, SCOTUS justice appointed by James Madison, the 'Father of the Constitution':

§ 1868. Probably at the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration, the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship. An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation.

[McCulloch]

Not one single religion but the group of religions which use "God" as the name of their god, that is most monotheist religions. You did admit that establishing a related group of religions is not allowable. Or did you mean that establishing a small group of related religions (for example Baptists, or Roman Catholics) is prohibited by the constitution but establishing a larger group (for example Christians or the Abrahamic religions) is not?

You're ignoring the fact the Founders assumed America to be a Christian nation, but did not want a particular Christian denomination established by the Federal Gov't.

I am ignoring this fact because it is not an established fact. If the founders intended the new republic to be a generically Christian state, then they would have made that explicit.

From Joseph Story, SCOTUS justice appointed by James Madison, the 'Father of the Constitution':

§ 1868. Probably at the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration, the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship. An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation.

This is one of many contending opinions of the time. This particular opinion did not seem to get carried forward.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Page 11 Post 105

I don't think we should bind ourselves to what folks hundreds, or thousands of years ago thought.

The intent of the Founders and the Constitution should be abandoned?

Which intent? Intent that folks should be free? Keep. Intent that we should infect government with religion? Toss.

Much like so much of the Bible has been abandoned as society progresses.

We differ on the definition of progress.

At least we agree on something.

I consider it progress when we keep superstitious beliefs out of the government.

The principle of separation of Church (Religion) and State should preclude any religious notions from encroaching on government functions.

You inserted 'Religion' where it doesn't belong. The Federal Gov't. is separated from a particular church, not religion in general.

Federal, State, local; I think all religion should be kept out of government.

If the placement of "Religion" is incorrect, then substitute it with "any superstitious, divisive, unfounded belief" not based on verifiable data.

Does that fit better?