WBC To Picket Funeral

[Kuan]

I saw this online and it made me sick to my stomach. How can people be so... ](*,)

Just becuase this little innocent girl was born on 9/11...
9-Year-Old Victim of Arizona Shooting's Funeral to Be Picketed by Westboro Baptist Church

[cnorman18]

Fred Phelps and his followers are Christian terrorists...nothing less.

I understand the impulse, believe me, but I have to disagree; the WBC has not (yet) murdered anyone nor attempted to, and calling them "terrorists" devalues and trivializes the term, and demeans the victims of actual terrorism. Like equating pat-downs or sexual harassment with "rape," hyperbolic language in situations like this rather obstructs the discussion rather than furthers it.

The problem is the limitations of our language. This is another situation, as with an undefined God, where there are no objective and literal terms that are helpful; one is reduced to metaphor, and in this case, the only available metaphors are not allowed on this forum. They mostly involve body parts and organic excretions. As a friend of mine once said regarding our annoying boss, the question at hand was whether to define him as a "flaming" one or a "gaping" one.

The Arizona Legislature is about to rush through a bill which will prohibit demonstrations within 300 feet of any funeral or memorial service. The WBC responded that they were planning to picket at an intersection more than 1,000 feet away anyway, so there's some small comfort there. Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before some outraged relative responds with a physical attack against the "Christians" -- notice the quotes -- who perpetrate these contemptible displays of cynical callousness. That's not to be advocated, but it's a fact of life; what goes around comes around, and one day Fred Phelps is going to find out what a bullet feels like. He wants to make himself a target and a martyr, and if we're all very lucky, someday he'll achieve his goal. I don't think many people will be extending compassion and respect to HIS family, either. Perhaps then the appeal of this sort of ugliness will be reduced among that spectacularly dysfunctional family and their followers.

[Flail]

Fred Phelps and his followers are Christian terrorists...nothing less.

I understand the impulse, believe me, but I have to disagree; the WBC has not (yet) murdered anyone nor attempted to, and calling them "terrorists" devalues and trivializes the term, and demeans the victims of actual terrorism. Like equating pat-downs or sexual harassment with "rape," hyperbolic language in situations like this rather obstructs the discussion rather than furthers it.

Terrorist dictionary meaning: extremist, fanatic, radical.

The WBC are Christian extremists,fanatics, radicals...nothing less...what they do is bound to end violently. What they do certainly engenders extreme notions and horrific emotions in all who attend these funeral events. Waiting until violence occurs before calling them what they are is akin to waiting for the rattlesnake bite before you step away.

[cnorman18]

Fred Phelps and his followers are Christian terrorists...nothing less.

I understand the impulse, believe me, but I have to disagree; the WBC has not (yet) murdered anyone nor attempted to, and calling them "terrorists" devalues and trivializes the term, and demeans the victims of actual terrorism. Like equating pat-downs or sexual harassment with "rape," hyperbolic language in situations like this rather obstructs the discussion rather than furthers it.

Terrorist dictionary meaning: extremist, fanatic, radical.

The WBC are Christian extremists,fanatics, radicals...nothing less...what they do is bound to end violently. What they do certainly engenders extreme notions and horrific emotions in all who attend these funeral events. Waiting until violence occurs before calling them what they are is akin to waiting for the rattlesnake bite before you step away.

"Extremist, fanatic, radical"; I would agree with all those. As far as "terrorist" is concerned -- OK. I can certainly see the reasons for using it, and I'd accept it in the metaphorical sense -- which is more useful than the body-part terms. I don't see much point in quibbling about the word; I think there's a distinction, but in the case of the WBC, it's surely not far off the mark. The important thing is to acknowledge the horrifying nature of what they do. "Bad people" doesn't quite get us there.

My dad taught me that there are certain actions and remarks to which the only appropriate response, from a thoughtful and civil gentleman, is a punch in the nose. Fred Phelps is guilty of that kind of egregiously offensive behavior many times over. If I am ever in the same room with him, I'll do the time afterward with a clear conscience and a smile on my face.

[Flail]

Fred Phelps and his followers are Christian terrorists...nothing less.

I understand the impulse, believe me, but I have to disagree; the WBC has not (yet) murdered anyone nor attempted to, and calling them "terrorists" devalues and trivializes the term, and demeans the victims of actual terrorism. Like equating pat-downs or sexual harassment with "rape," hyperbolic language in situations like this rather obstructs the discussion rather than furthers it.

Terrorist dictionary meaning: extremist, fanatic, radical.

The WBC are Christian extremists,fanatics, radicals...nothing less...what they do is bound to end violently. What they do certainly engenders extreme notions and horrific emotions in all who attend these funeral events. Waiting until violence occurs before calling them what they are is akin to waiting for the rattlesnake bite before you step away.

"Extremist, fanatic, radical"; I would agree with all those. As far as "terrorist" is concerned -- OK. I can certainly see the reasons for using it, and I'd accept it in the metaphorical sense -- which is more useful than the body-part terms. I don't see much point in quibbling about the word; I think there's a distinction, but in the case of the WBC, it's surely not far off the mark. The important thing is to acknowledge the horrifying nature of what they do. "Bad people" doesn't quite get us there.

My dad taught me that there are certain actions and remarks to which the only appropriate response, from a thoughtful and civil gentleman, is a punch in the nose. Fred Phelps is guilty of that kind of egregiously offensive behavior many times over. If I am ever in the same room with him, I'll do the time afterward with a clear conscience and a smile on my face.

If we are in that same room together you'd better be quick if you want to beat me to the punch....however, since I have criminal law experience I could get you out of jail.

[cnorman18]

Fred Phelps and his followers are Christian terrorists...nothing less.

I understand the impulse, believe me, but I have to disagree; the WBC has not (yet) murdered anyone nor attempted to, and calling them "terrorists" devalues and trivializes the term, and demeans the victims of actual terrorism. Like equating pat-downs or sexual harassment with "rape," hyperbolic language in situations like this rather obstructs the discussion rather than furthers it.

Terrorist dictionary meaning: extremist, fanatic, radical.

The WBC are Christian extremists,fanatics, radicals...nothing less...what they do is bound to end violently. What they do certainly engenders extreme notions and horrific emotions in all who attend these funeral events. Waiting until violence occurs before calling them what they are is akin to waiting for the rattlesnake bite before you step away.

"Extremist, fanatic, radical"; I would agree with all those. As far as "terrorist" is concerned -- OK. I can certainly see the reasons for using it, and I'd accept it in the metaphorical sense -- which is more useful than the body-part terms. I don't see much point in quibbling about the word; I think there's a distinction, but in the case of the WBC, it's surely not far off the mark. The important thing is to acknowledge the horrifying nature of what they do. "Bad people" doesn't quite get us there.

My dad taught me that there are certain actions and remarks to which the only appropriate response, from a thoughtful and civil gentleman, is a punch in the nose. Fred Phelps is guilty of that kind of egregiously offensive behavior many times over. If I am ever in the same room with him, I'll do the time afterward with a clear conscience and a smile on my face.

If we are in that same room together you'd better be quick if you want to beat me to the punch....however, since I have criminal law experience I could get you out of jail.

Deal. But I think we'd probably have to get in line, and the line would be a long one...

[Goat]

Fred Phelps and his followers are Christian terrorists...nothing less.

I understand the impulse, believe me, but I have to disagree; the WBC has not (yet) murdered anyone nor attempted to, and calling them "terrorists" devalues and trivializes the term, and demeans the victims of actual terrorism. Like equating pat-downs or sexual harassment with "rape," hyperbolic language in situations like this rather obstructs the discussion rather than furthers it.

The problem is the limitations of our language. This is another situation, as with an undefined God, where there are no objective and literal terms that are helpful; one is reduced to metaphor, and in this case, the only available metaphors are not allowed on this forum. They mostly involve body parts and organic excretions. As a friend of mine once said regarding our annoying boss, the question at hand was whether to define him as a "flaming" one or a "gaping" one.

The Arizona Legislature is about to rush through a bill which will prohibit demonstrations within 300 feet of any funeral or memorial service. The WBC responded that they were planning to picket at an intersection more than 1,000 feet away anyway, so there's some small comfort there. Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before some outraged relative responds with a physical attack against the "Christians" -- notice the quotes -- who perpetrate these contemptible displays of cynical callousness. That's not to be advocated, but it's a fact of life; what goes around comes around, and one day Fred Phelps is going to find out what a bullet feels like. He wants to make himself a target and a martyr, and if we're all very lucky, someday he'll achieve his goal. I don't think many people will be extending compassion and respect to HIS family, either. Perhaps then the appeal of this sort of ugliness will be reduced among that spectacularly dysfunctional family and their followers.

I strongly disagree with any use of violence , even against these idiots. However, they are going to Arizona , and way the gun laws and social expectations are in Az right now make it doubly dangerous.