The rights of an unborn fetus

[WinePusher]

Abortion is probably the most contreversial issue in World, everybody has their own opinion about it. Most christians are opposed to the practice mainly because of their religious beliefs, but I would like to point out Christopher Hitchens opposes Abortion on purely secular and scientific terms. Questions for disscussion

1) Which is more important, the life of the child or the choice of the mother?

2) Couldn't abortion eventually lead to the practice of infanticide?

3) Does the father of the child have any voice?

4) Do parents have any say if their under age teenage daughter wishes to have an abortion.

[Goat]

You said you are "pro choice in the early stages of pregnancy. Wats the difference between a late term abortion and an early term abortion? Is there a period in between when the fetus begins to gain the rights of an actual human?

Viability is a big factor in my view. And the period where a fetus begins to gain the right of an actual human being is this process known as 'birth'. However, I am quite willing to say that after 22 to 24 weeks there has to be extenuating circumstances for an abortion

[WinePusher]

You said you are "pro choice in the early stages of pregnancy. Wats the difference between a late term abortion and an early term abortion? Is there a period in between when the fetus begins to gain the rights of an actual human?

Viability is a big factor in my view. And the period where a fetus begins to gain the right of an actual human being is this process known as 'birth'. However, I am quite willing to say that after 22 to 24 weeks there has to be extenuating circumstances for an abortion

so, hypothetically speaking, what if it were proven scientifically that life begins at the moment of conception. If it were a fact, that th fetus was indeed, a viable human life, should that have any impact on the current dialouge. Pelosi said whether the fetus is a life or not, it shouldn't have an impact on the decision of the mother. Do u agree?

[Goat]

You said you are "pro choice in the early stages of pregnancy. Wats the difference between a late term abortion and an early term abortion? Is there a period in between when the fetus begins to gain the rights of an actual human?

Viability is a big factor in my view. And the period where a fetus begins to gain the right of an actual human being is this process known as 'birth'. However, I am quite willing to say that after 22 to 24 weeks there has to be extenuating circumstances for an abortion

so, hypothetically speaking, what if it were proven scientifically that life begins at the moment of conception. If it were a fact, that th fetus was indeed, a viable human life, should that have any impact on the current dialouge. Pelosi said whether the fetus is a life or not, it shouldn't have an impact on the decision of the mother. Do u agree?

Nope.. absolutely not. The moment of conception means totally nothing to me, nor do I care that 'life begins at the moment of conception. What matters to me is the moment of birth, followed by time frame of potential viability with reasonable health. And, of course, the life of the pregnant woman is always a concern.

[Lux]

You said you are "pro choice in the early stages of pregnancy. Wats the difference between a late term abortion and an early term abortion? Is there a period in between when the fetus begins to gain the rights of an actual human?

Viability is a big factor in my view. And the period where a fetus begins to gain the right of an actual human being is this process known as 'birth'. However, I am quite willing to say that after 22 to 24 weeks there has to be extenuating circumstances for an abortion

so, hypothetically speaking, what if it were proven scientifically that life begins at the moment of conception. If it were a fact, that th fetus was indeed, a viable human life, should that have any impact on the current dialouge. Pelosi said whether the fetus is a life or not, it shouldn't have an impact on the decision of the mother. Do u agree?

I think I see your point. Medical advances have made it possible for fetuses to live outside their mother's body sooner and sooner, so how can we really know when a fetus could be viable?

The reason I, personally, 'prefer' abortion in early stages of pregnancy is because the amount of consciousness the embryo/fetus has during the first trimester is much lower than that of the 2nd and 3rd trimesters.
Whether or not a fetus can feel pain in any stage of the pregnancy is still in dispute, but the difference in the development of their nervous system is what makes the difference for me.

[PlayRadioPlay!]

1) Which is more important, the life of the child or the choice of the mother?
The life of the child.

2) Couldn't abortion eventually lead to the practice of infanticide?
Absolutely.

3) Does the father of the child have any voice?
He should, yes. But, within limitations.

4) Do parents have any say if their under age teenage daughter wishes to have an abortion.
I believe they should have much say in the matter, but that the final decision is of the teenage daughter.

[chris_brown207]

I have a few problems with the arguments of the Pro-"Life" crowd.

First, they always tout adoption as being the proposed alternative to abortion. That sounds great on paper - but I have yet to meet more than a handful of Pro-Lifers who have actually adopted. Their numbers are miniscule, compared to those who oppose abortion in all forms.

You would think someone who is all about "Life" would actually care about these unwanted fetuses AFTER they are born. The foster care system cannot handle the cases it has now, while abortion is legal... how can they possibly handle it if it were made illegal. Not to mention the many document negative results of children growing up in foster care systems - the high rate of drug use, crime, and institutionalization.

Second, they refer to abortion as "murder". However, there is no scientific evidence to support that the fetus is a fully independent human being during the first and the second trimester. It is not even able to survive outside the womb until the third trimester... It would seem that most (not all) Pro-Lifers are basing their positions on religious contexts, or "gut feelings" - and with the 1st Amendment, and a rational government, neither of these are reasons to be creating policy.

[WinePusher]

First, they always tout adoption as being the proposed alternative to abortion. That sounds great on paper - but I have yet to meet more than a handful of Pro-Lifers who have actually adopted. Their numbers are miniscule, compared to those who oppose abortion in all forms.

Just because YOU have only met a handful of Pro Lifers that don't adopt doesn't mean they don't. Perhaps a substantiating statistic might prove this claim rather than a citation of personal experience.

You would think someone who is all about "Life" would actually care about these unwanted fetuses AFTER they are born.

So, we should kill a babies because it may have a tough life in the future?

The foster care system cannot handle the cases it has now, while abortion is legal... how can they possibly handle it if it were made illegal.

Is their any evidence to show that the foster care system is doind poorly? I think it's better to allow a child to be borned and allow it to live and experience life for themselves. What makes you, or any abortion doctor or mother qualifyed to decide whether a fetus should be killed or not just because you think their future life may be unplesant?

Not to mention the many document negative results of children growing up in foster care systems - the high rate of drug use, crime, and institutionalization.

Can you offer any sources that could back up this claim?

Second, they refer to abortion as "murder". However, there is no scientific evidence to support that the fetus is a fully independent human being during the first and the second trimester. It is not even able to survive outside the womb until the third trimester... It would seem that most (not all) Pro-Lifers are basing their positions on religious contexts, or "gut feelings"

Is it not true that abortion prevents a potential fetus from achieving "human status?"

Can you tell us when life actually begins then.

and with the 1st Amendment, and a rational government, neither of these are reasons to be creating policy.

Tell me where the right to an abortion is mentioned in the constitution.

In the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson specifically mentions a GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO LIFE that is natural and unalienable. Where is the Right To Kill An Unborn Child mentioned in the Constitution or any of the founding documents?

[Wyvern]

The foster care system cannot handle the cases it has now, while abortion is legal... how can they possibly handle it if it were made illegal.

Is their any evidence to show that the foster care system is doind poorly? I think it's better to allow a child to be borned and allow it to live and experience life for themselves. What makes you, or any abortion doctor or mother qualifyed to decide whether a fetus should be killed or not just because you think their future life may be unplesant?

I think the point is would you Winepusher as an admitted anti tax person be willing to undergo a massive tax hike in order to care for what the antiabortion crowd claim are millions of otherwise aborted children that would be born live every year? You think the government is too big now just imagine how big it would be with millions of wards of the state and the thousands of orphanages they would be housed in.

Tell me where the right to an abortion is mentioned in the constitution.

In the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson specifically mentions a GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO LIFE that is natural and unalienable. Where is the Right To Kill An Unborn Child mentioned in the Constitution or any of the founding documents?

I guess the question that should be asked is where is abortion mentioned at all in the constitution? To use a governmental minimalist perspective If it is not specifically stated in the constitution the government should not have a hand in it which would make it legal. In my mind if you disagree with abortion it would make more sense instead to try to change peoples minds instead of changing the law. Even if you could somehow get abortions illegal again, abortions will still be performed. For instance when I was in the Navy I worked on the Ob/Gyn ward of a hospital and although we did not perform abortions the most common procedure we performed was what is known as a d&c which as our ward clerk termed it was a dusting and cleaning effectively it was a simple vacuuming up anything that was in the uterus so in effect it was an abortion without having to use the term.

[Lux]

I just want to add that many of the babies that would be born if their mothers chose adoption instead of abortion, would not end up in orphanages.
There are many agencies that set up adoptions to happen right after the baby is born. The future biological mother can contact any of those agencies while she's pregnant, and have her pick among many couples (that undergo a selection process), meet them, and the legal work is done before the birth, so the adoptive parents actually get to take the baby home from the hospital as soon as it is discharged.
This adoption method has thousand of couples waiting. Many of the babies being aborted could have a proper home from the very day of their birth.

[ChaosBorders]

Not to mention the many document negative results of children growing up in foster care systems - the high rate of drug use, crime, and institutionalization.

Can you offer any sources that could back up this claim?

Here's a few:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-11-02/o ... sing-costs

http://www.rawstory.com/news/afp/Childr ... 32007.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/20 ... are-youths