Iowas Decision

[micatala]

As you may have seen, the Iowa Supreme Court has legalized gay marriage.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... S/90403010

The ruling is not up for appeal, and the legislative avenue for turning this back will be difficult and time consuming, with no possibility for a voter recall until 2012.


Questions for debate:

1) How much does this bolster the case in the U.S. agains gay marriage bans?

2) Is this a blip, or a signal of the tide turning?

A couple of snippets from the judges:

Friday’s decision also addressed what it called the “religious undercurrent propelling the same-sex marriage debate� and said judges must remain outside the fray.

“Our constitution does not permit any branch of government to resolve these types of religious debates and entrusts to courts the task of ensuring that government avoids them,� Cady wrote.

“This approach does not disrespect or denigrate the religious views of many Iowans who may strongly believe in marriage as a dual-gender union, but considers, as we must, only the constitutional rights of all people, as expressed by the promise of equal protection for all.�

I will try to post a link to the full decision. As another question for debate, we could consider the quality of this decision. Is this "judicial activism run amok" or is this another "Brown versus Board of Ed" ruling in which the judiciary stands up for minority rights that the majority is unwilling to bestow?

[Goat]

What I think is an important change, Vermont, which allowed civil unions due to court procedings, has over ridden their governors veto, and is going to be allowing full marriages come September 1st.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090407/ap_ ... ge_vermont

I agree, this is another significant step forward.

We may have to be patient with respect to how long it will take to overturn some of the recent spate of anti-gay ballot measures. As CNN reported today, 29 states have passed some form of anti-gay marriage bills or ballot measures. Failing court action on these, we would need to wait until the tide of public opinion turns. I think it is turning but I wouldn't expect a drastic sea change across the country too quickly. We'll see. Maybe I'll be wrong.

I know I was wrong on many things. I saw a black person become president in my life time.

[micatala]

As you may have seen, the Iowa Supreme Court has legalized gay marriage.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... S/90403010

The ruling is not up for appeal, and the legislative avenue for turning this back will be difficult and time consuming, with no possibility for a voter recall until 2012.


Questions for debate:

1) How much does this bolster the case in the U.S. agains gay marriage bans?

2) Is this a blip, or a signal of the tide turning?

A couple of snippets from the judges:

Friday’s decision also addressed what it called the “religious undercurrent propelling the same-sex marriage debate� and said judges must remain outside the fray.

“Our constitution does not permit any branch of government to resolve these types of religious debates and entrusts to courts the task of ensuring that government avoids them,� Cady wrote.

“This approach does not disrespect or denigrate the religious views of many Iowans who may strongly believe in marriage as a dual-gender union, but considers, as we must, only the constitutional rights of all people, as expressed by the promise of equal protection for all.�

I will try to post a link to the full decision. As another question for debate, we could consider the quality of this decision. Is this "judicial activism run amok" or is this another "Brown versus Board of Ed" ruling in which the judiciary stands up for minority rights that the majority is unwilling to bestow?

So far we have not had any debate on the details of the actual decision.

Again, the decision is here.
http://www.kcci.com/download/2009/0403/19084885.pdf

Has this decision closed all debate on the matter? If not, what are the flaws in this decision?


There was another thread on Gay Marriage in Massachusetts, which has been closed. If my count is right, we now have 4 states where gay marriage is legal, MA, VT, IA, and CT.

We could consider all of these states along with IA in their portention of the future.

I also note that the governor of NY is a proponent of gay marriage in his state.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/16/samese ... e.newyork/

This would seem to indicate political barriers to gay marriage are diminishing. A politician who, unbidden, chooses to deal with such a controversial issue would seem to indicate either a lot of guts, foolishness, or a calculation that the landscape is changing.


How long before the federal government, either the congress or the judiciary, follows the leads of the states that are out in front on this issue?

[McCulloch]

How long before the federal government, either the congress or the judiciary, follows the leads of the states that are out in front on this issue?

That seems to be the pattern. For example in Canada,

• 10 June 2003: Ontario
• 8 July 2003: British Columbia
• 16 March 2004: Quebec
• 14 July 2004: Yukon territory
• 16 September 2004: Manitoba
• 24 September 2004: Nova Scotia
• 5 November 2004: Saskatchewan
• 21 December 2004: Newfoundland and Labrador
• 23 June 2005: New Brunswick
• 20 July 2005 (Civil Marriage Act - Federal Legislation): Alberta, Prince Edward Island, Nunavut territory, and the Northwest Territories

The lead was made by the judiciary since few politicians were willing to stand on either side of the issue. There is nothing to gain politically except enemies from taking a stand.

[Goat]

I also note that the governor of NY is a proponent of gay marriage in his state.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/16/samese ... e.newyork/

The previous time it was tried to get the change in NY, the effort passed the house, but stalled in the senate. I would be surprised if there is that big a turn around just yet. I would not be surprised if it happens eventually.

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

Things certainly look promising, at the moment. Iowa may have opened the floodgates on gay marriage. It is far too early to say that there is a trend going on here, but two states have legalized gay marriage, and a third is introducing a bill to do so, all in the span of two weeks. I'm not saying any kind of national law allowing gay marriage will come from this, but things definitely look promising.

[micatala]

Things certainly look promising, at the moment. Iowa may have opened the floodgates on gay marriage. It is far too early to say that there is a trend going on here, but two states have legalized gay marriage, and a third is introducing a bill to do so, all in the span of two weeks. I'm not saying any kind of national law allowing gay marriage will come from this, but things definitely look promising.

And we now have a suit seeking to overturn the Defense of Marriage Act.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09030306.html

This is an article from a conservative site opposing the suit. Note their concern that the Obama Administration will not energetically defend DOMA.

Note also the claim that "millions of kids" will be hurt because they may not be brought up in a family with a married mom and dad.

Now, I believe one of the articles on the Iowa decision noted that there were something over 5000 gay couples in Iowa. Lets multiply this, conservatively, by 200 and say there are 1 million gay couples nationwide (it's probably a fair amount less than this). I guess if all these couples had 2 kids we would have millions of kids. Somehow, however, i think it will be way, way less than this.

[sheep]

The hatred of Jesus is the downfall of modern polotics

[Cathar1950]

The hatred of Jesus is the downfall of modern polotics

Stop spamming.
Modern politics hasn't fallen yet, it has been evolving. How does the hatred of Jesus, which I question cause the downfall? Most really don't hate Jesus in fact he is seem as a hero in the USA and that notion doesn't make politic better or worse unless those that refuse to address politics because they think Jesus will soon return. I would think the idea that Jesus will fix it all has a more negative effect on politics then your imaginary hatred.

[McCulloch]

The hatred of Jesus is the downfall of modern polotics

What would you suggest? The more Biblically sound idea of the divine right of kings? To a certain degree, I must agree with you. Modern politics has only been possible since people started thinking for themselves and abandoning the dogma of the Christian religions. In my view, modern politics may have started to emerge in England in 1688 when the Parliament invited William of Orange to be the monarch of England, but under the provisions of a bill of rights and subject to Parliament.

[micatala]

The hatred of Jesus is the downfall of modern polotics

Just as an FYI, I am a Christian and do support gay rights. I profoundly disagree that this position amounts to hating Jesus in any way shape or form.