Can we support a pro-abortion candidate

[arunangelo]

Can we support a candidate who does not recognize all human beings as human beings?

We have human rights because we have human life. In other words if we did not have life in the first place, our rights would not be an issue. Therefore, if anyone accepts or promotes laws that allow destruction of human life-especially lives of the most helpless and innocent unborn babies, any talk about any other issue related to helping human beings and protecting their rights and well being becomes a mute issue. Furthermore, abortion is the worst crime because a helpless unborn innocent human being is murdered by a physician who is supposed to a healer and the mother who is supposed to protect and nurture the baby. How can anyone support a candidate who supports and promotes such a terrible crime and is unwilling to call victims of such a crime human beings: after they survived botched abortions)? Would not supporting such a candidate be similar to supporting a Nazi candidate?

[Goat]

Can we support a candidate who does not recognize all human beings as human beings?

We have human rights because we have human life. In other words if we did not have life in the first place, our rights would not be an issue. Therefore, if anyone accepts or promotes laws that allow destruction of human life-especially lives of the most helpless and innocent unborn babies, any talk about any other issue related to helping human beings and protecting their rights and well being becomes a mute issue. Furthermore, abortion is the worst crime because a helpless unborn innocent human being is murdered by a physician who is supposed to a healer and the mother who is supposed to protect and nurture the baby. How can anyone support a candidate who supports and promotes such a terrible crime and is unwilling to call victims of such a crime human beings: after they survived botched abortions)? Would not supporting such a candidate be similar to supporting a Nazi candidate?

Considering that you have to really stretch to find abortion being murder in the bible, and there is an actual procedure for abortion described in the bible, I think your entire question is moot.

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

Can we support a candidate who does not recognize all human beings as human beings?

Can you show me one legitimate reason why life begins at the moment of conception? You must actually establish that this is murder. For that matter, can a pro-choice someone show me why life begins at birth? It seems so unbelievable arbitrary.

[Beto]

"Pro-abortion" is a straw man. No one is "pro-abortion". Some people are pro-choice which in no way is a direct contradiction to pro-life. The world isn't black and white, and life isn't quite so cut and dry. Can we support a fundamentalist candidate that fails to realize this?

[catalyst]

Can we support a candidate who does not recognize all human beings as human beings?

We have human rights because we have human life. In other words if we did not have life in the first place, our rights would not be an issue. Therefore, if anyone accepts or promotes laws that allow destruction of human life-especially lives of the most helpless and innocent unborn babies, any talk about any other issue related to helping human beings and protecting their rights and well being becomes a mute issue. Furthermore, abortion is the worst crime because a helpless unborn innocent human being is murdered by a physician who is supposed to a healer and the mother who is supposed to protect and nurture the baby. How can anyone support a candidate who supports and promotes such a terrible crime and is unwilling to call victims of such a crime human beings: after they survived botched abortions)? Would not supporting such a candidate be similar to supporting a Nazi candidate?

Considering that you have to really stretch to find abortion being murder in the bible, and there is an actual procedure for abortion described in the bible, I think your entire question is moot.

Exactly Goat and in fact there are several references in the OT(Hosea, Numbers, 2 Kings ..for example) where god seems ok with the whole abortion thing.

To Arunangelo,

FTR, I am a pro-choicer and I am a woman. I would never terminate a pregnancy myself, however, it is not for me to determine whether it is right or wrong for someone else to do so either. It is their body and mind and ultimately a choice they personally have to live with, but I would not call someone actually deciding to have an abortion, murderer. Some women have to make that decision, because of health reasons and recommended by her Dr to do so, so end up having a D&C,(EXACTLY the same procedure as what you call MURDER) although having to live with the grief of the loss of their child. Who are you to call that woman a MURDERER? The last thing a woman grieving the loss of her baby needs is some ignorant and totally unawares pro-lifer screaming murderer in her face. Perhaps Obama sees the shades of grey as I do, rather than the monochromatic view as to this issue you obviously have.

[realthinker]

Can we support a candidate who does not recognize all human beings as human beings?

Can you show me one legitimate reason why life begins at the moment of conception? You must actually establish that this is murder. For that matter, can a pro-choice someone show me why life begins at birth? It seems so unbelievable arbitrary.

Life begins at birth because until that point the fetus does not rely upon its own physiology. Its mother is metabolizing food for its nutrients. Its mother's blood is supplying it oxygen and carrying away waste. It is not a separate, complete human being. It is not alive. Even the most generous social convention does not treat it as such. Should the mother die and the fetus with it, it is not treated separately with regard to death rituals. It has no legacy.

[JoeyKnothead]

Can we support a candidate who does not recognize all human beings as human beings?

Can you show me one legitimate reason why life begins at the moment of conception? You must actually establish that this is murder. For that matter, can a pro-choice someone show me why life begins at birth? It seems so unbelievable arbitrary.

Life begins at birth because until that point the fetus does not rely upon its own physiology. Its mother is metabolizing food for its nutrients. Its mother's blood is supplying it oxygen and carrying away waste. It is not a separate, complete human being. It is not alive. Even the most generous social convention does not treat it as such. Should the mother die and the fetus with it, it is not treated separately with regard to death rituals. It has no legacy.

Well said. If something is growing as part of another, couldn't it be said to be more parasitic than not? Of course now I'll get castigated for calling a fetus a parasite.

My concern is that if abortion were outlawed it would not stop it, only create more problems because of women getting hurt through illegal/ad hoc abortions.

[Fallibleone]

Can we support a candidate who does not recognize all human beings as human beings?

We have human rights because we have human life. In other words if we did not have life in the first place, our rights would not be an issue. Therefore, if anyone accepts or promotes laws that allow destruction of human life-especially lives of the most helpless and innocent unborn babies, any talk about any other issue related to helping human beings and protecting their rights and well being becomes a mute issue. Furthermore, abortion is the worst crime because a helpless unborn innocent human being is murdered by a physician who is supposed to a healer and the mother who is supposed to protect and nurture the baby. How can anyone support a candidate who supports and promotes such a terrible crime and is unwilling to call victims of such a crime human beings: after they survived botched abortions)? Would not supporting such a candidate be similar to supporting a Nazi candidate?

No it wouldn't. As someone has already pointed out, 'pro-abortion' is a misleading term. No one is out there shouting about how abortion is great. What I find difficult to stomach is the shouting of people about how those who have abortions are somehow violating human rights, when no thought whatsoever is given to the extant living, breathing human whose rights would undoubtedly be violated if she were forced to continue with an unwanted or harmful pregnancy. Is this what you want to see happen? The violation of the rights of actual human beings who exist right now, because someone decides that a zygote for example is a human being? Why is it OK to violate a real human's very real rights in order to apparently uphold those of a thing which is not even human enough to have rights in the first place?

When does a clump of cells become a human in your view?

[Fallibleone]

Can we support a candidate who does not recognize all human beings as human beings?

Can you show me one legitimate reason why life begins at the moment of conception? You must actually establish that this is murder. For that matter, can a pro-choice someone show me why life begins at birth? It seems so unbelievable arbitrary.

Life begins at birth because until that point the fetus does not rely upon its own physiology. Its mother is metabolizing food for its nutrients. Its mother's blood is supplying it oxygen and carrying away waste. It is not a separate, complete human being. It is not alive. Even the most generous social convention does not treat it as such. Should the mother die and the fetus with it, it is not treated separately with regard to death rituals. It has no legacy.

Well said. If something is growing as part of another, couldn't it be said to be more parasitic than not? Of course now I'll get castigated for calling a fetus a parasite.

If it helps, I agree with you, and I speak as a mother.

My concern is that if abortion were outlawed it would not stop it, only create more problems because of women getting hurt through illegal/ad hoc abortions.

And also rape victims and those otherwise at risk from their pregnancies, and some babies, would sufffer.

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

Can we support a candidate who does not recognize all human beings as human beings?

Can you show me one legitimate reason why life begins at the moment of conception? You must actually establish that this is murder. For that matter, can a pro-choice someone show me why life begins at birth? It seems so unbelievable arbitrary.

Life begins at birth because until that point the fetus does not rely upon its own physiology. Its mother is metabolizing food for its nutrients. Its mother's blood is supplying it oxygen and carrying away waste. It is not a separate, complete human being. It is not alive. Even the most generous social convention does not treat it as such. Should the mother die and the fetus with it, it is not treated separately with regard to death rituals. It has no legacy.

The fact that it is "parasitic" does not make it dead. Life is not determined by independence. There are countless animals who are clearly alive that rely entirely on another organism.